They are certainly NOT making offers at ask. Even dummies know that's insane. But no one is low-balling either. People are looking, or at least going through the motions or window shopping, but I saw an open house in an area where I was doing a job, and all the attending Realtors did was practically beg people to make an offer, ANYTHING. And after what seemed like 200 people... Nada.
This jives well with what my anecdotal observation of Black Friday downtown. Well, the best summary I have is, "Where the hell is everyone?". It was like a normal Tuesday, with a decent number of empty parking spaces. In fact it was more like a slow Tuesday. Sidewalks empty. No one that I saw was holding bags of goodies. And it was 11:30AM! Maybe Duncan can shed more light on this situation, but to my jaded eyes, downtown looked like a bust.
There were exceptions. Fred Meyer parking lots were overrun. But this whole theme of economic lockup seems to be taking hold around here. Not just a slowdown, but a complete seizing up of the economic gears; No one buying, no one selling, ANYTHING.
And what's just INSANE is these Realtors seemed totally BAFFLED as to the cause. They were actually MAD at people for not buying. Yes, they are mad. Like "we" owe them a living. But they do have to eat, after all they are almost human. So I thought I'd share a secret, 3 Golden Rules for selling ANY HOME, that I learned on a Mystical Odyssey that took me deep into a Burmese jungle for 7 years of complete fasting with Hindu & Buddhist monks chanting mantras to achieve Universal understanding.
Well, it was either that or I had 18 beers, got lost in the woods, stumbled on a frat-drunk-fest that had turned homo-erotic (and tell me what frat-drunk-fest does not go homo on ya?), and they tied me to a tree... and I've had to blot the rest from my mind after years of intense therapy.
So here are the three Inviolable rules for the Absolute Guaranteed Sale of Any Property, In Any Condition, In Any Location, No Matter How Horrendous. You should also remember this moment as the exact point in time when you learned all that is possible & necessary for effective real estate marketing.
Rule 1) Cut the price
Rule 2) Cut the price, but this time cut it to rock bottom, then cut it 10% more
Rule 3) Go to Rule 1
The Realtors I referred to earlier? They were only practicing Rule 1, and NOT Rule 2, and certainly not 3. Some implement a WEAK version of Rule 2, and then wonder why they do NOT SELL. If you don't cut it to ROCK BOTTOM, as stated clearly in the rule, then Rule 2 is superfluous. You could have gotten by with Rule 1 & 3! It's ALL THREE, or nothing.
Let me illustrate an analogous scenario about what has happened in the Bend real estate market over the past 3 years. OK, imagine you are at the local used car dealer. You are interested in a pile of crap jalopy. The salesman comes over, detecting a heat signature & a pulse, and begins his schtick.
Car Guy: "Hey, she's a beauty ain't she? I've seen 200 buyers today who were interested, but you, my friend, are the person I've been saving this little jewel for."
You: "I see you want $1,200."
Car Guy: "Oh no. That's wrong. We had someone with a pulse walk in, so we automatically boost the price 20%, whenever anyone shows any interest. So the price is $1,440."
You: "What!"
Car Guy: "Ooop, righteous indignation, that's another 20%. It's now $1,725."
You: "Are you insane?"
Car Guy: "Insults? Those are good for 10%! Now it's $1,900."
You: "But nothing's changed! It's the same piece of crap car it was 2 minutes ago, and you just keep raising the price for no reason."
Car Guy: "You're right! You cannot believe this business! Everytime ANYTHING happens, like a buyer even shows up, we raise the price! And what's great is all our competition does the same thing! It's UNBELIEVABLE!"
You: "Wow, can I do this?"
Car Guy: "Sure, anyone can. All you have to do is fog a mirror, and you can get into this schtick! It's NO LOSE! Everyone who gets in seems to make everyone else MORE MONEY! It's mind boggling!"
You: "Wow! Doesn't the value of the car even count for anything?"
Car Guy: "Of course not! The car itself is the most unimportant part of this gig, it really doesn't even matter if it runs or not. Technically, many of the heaps I sell aren't even really cars. It's awesome!"
You: "Dang, a lot of my friends think this is a total scam, domed to implode. But now that I see it from the inside, I can see how it really is the greatest business ever created. I'm in!"
And so it goes. Unfortunately Bend area Realtors have forgotten the fundamental premise that The Car Actually Matters & The Price Actually Matters. They are used to The Bubble Paradigm, where what you are selling & the price are irrelevant. (Actually this is not true: A HIGH price is BETTER, because period 1 CASH returns are HIGHER, the higher the price any given person pays. Hence it is good for everyone to pay the absolute HIGHEST PRICE POSSIBLE. This is know as "BUBBLE LOGIC".) Until they remember The Good Old Days, aka REALITY, they will wallow in a 100% DEAD MARKET.
Now, due to the side effects of the Bubble, loose lending, crooked appraisers & Realtors, prices actually went to many-fold where they would have gone on their own. This has produced a market best visualized as 2 bell curves: One is the bell-curve of sellers. They are so far off to the right that the intersection with the buyers bell curve, which is far, FAR to the left, is practically nil.
The observant among you will now quickly see the brilliance of The 3 Rules. The buyers bell curve is stuck FAR TO THE LEFT, lenders have seen to that. There simply is NO MORE MONEY for the bubble schtick, so the buyer bell curve WILL NOT BUDGE. The sellers curve must SIMPLY MOVE LEFT, ie PRICES MUST COME DOWN. That's it. That's all there is. Realtors who are CONFUSED as to why should review The 3 Rules.
From Bloomberg: Housing Market's Stench Means Cut Price to Sell
Nov. 19 (Bloomberg) -- Raffles, festive balloons, open houses, car giveaways. Will any of these incentives sell houses? Not at the moment.
You don't have to be particularly creative in a market glutted with homes for sale. The painful reality is that homes are commodities. There are more than 4 million of them sitting out there unsold and more coming on the market every day due to foreclosures. If you really need to sell a house, price is the one lever that will move a property.
Almost everywhere your competition is abundant while buyers are waiting for prices to fall even more. U.S. existing-home prices are expected to drop almost 2 percent this year nationally, according to the National Association of Realtors, and are likely to fall further in areas oversaturated with homes for sale.
``Buyers just want price,'' says Mike Morgan, a Stuart, Florida-based lawyer, real-estate broker and consultant who researches property markets for hedge funds and financial institutions. ``Buyers have become educated and they can easily cut through the fluffy incentives.''
Morgan doesn't see any national rebound until at least 2010; maybe longer if builders keep constructing homes, and if banks continue dumping foreclosed properties on the market.
Morgan's Perspective
There's no way of telling how many homes are truly on the market since the picture is so dynamic.
About 2 million properties may be foreclosed upon in the coming year alone, resulting in an estimated loss of $223 billion in U.S. home equity, particularly in California, New York, Florida and Illinois, according to the Center for Responsible Lending, a North Carolina-based non-profit group.
Living near a foreclosed home may even trim as much as $5,000 from your own home's market value, the center says. Some 44 million households will be affected, or about a third of all U.S. housing units.
Selling has become a trying proposition in this dour market. Morgan has found that traditional deal-sweeteners such as paying broker bonuses and giving cash back on closing to the buyer aren't working as well as price cuts.
``On one $429,000 home a client wanted me to sell, the seller wanted to give the broker a $30,000 bonus on top of the commission. I told him it wouldn't help. I told him to just drop the price.''
Because the market is so price-sensitive -- buyers want bargains and sellers want to get prices they saw at the market's peak -- you have to be flexible when advertising your home.
Morgan suggests you sell exclusively through Internet-based property sites and local Multiple Listing Services. He has found that newspaper ads, signs and open houses don't work as well as the Internet.
What Works
When you price your property, you need to employ a strategy that can run counter to your emotional perception of the home's value. That sometimes means listing at a price far below what you have anchored upon.
Like any commodity, a home's price will follow supply-and- demand trends. In theory, custom homes in desirable neighborhoods should hold their value. Other properties should be discounted depending on how many similar homes or condos are on the market. Every market is different, though.
``If you don't get any calls on your listing price after a week, drop your price $10,000 or about 2 percent of your original asking price,'' Morgan says.
``The market will tell you what the price of your home is. You better be priced 10 percent under your competition -- and then be prepared to think about accepting offers under that.''
I know that's a disheartening strategy. Yet if you have to sell now, you need to take an honest look at housing inventories in your area.
Check Inventories
Selling in Miami? You are up against almost 80,000 listed condos and single-family homes, according to ZipRealty, an online brokerage service.
There are almost 30,000 units in Las Vegas; 42,000 in Boston; 35,000 in Seattle and 110,000 in Los Angeles. Those inventories are through October.
Price-cutting is the order of business in most major markets. The service's price-reduction index, for example, shows that more than half the listings surveyed in Boston, Orange County and Sacramento, California, are discounted.
Even markets that were considered relatively stable are bloated with unsold homes.
``People were telling me Boston and Seattle were OK,'' said Morgan, who recently visited both cities. ``I've got news for those folks. They aren't OK.''
Trouble Ahead
Will the Federal Reserve's quarter-point rate cut on Oct. 31 revive the moribund housing market?
It may spur a few buyers, but it won't help homeowners unable to refinance out of unaffordable adjustable-rate loans and headed for foreclosure. Nor will it clear out the massive inventory of newly built and previously owned homes.
Untold numbers of sellers are holding on to their properties or selling without brokers. Many pull homes off the market to rent at a loss.
Also look for builders to keep finishing new homes because they need to move inventory.
To sell those houses, they have to offer steep discounts. They will be advertising and doing anything they can to attract buyers. It will take more than balloons and donuts, though, to land the number of buyers they need to stay in business.
Brilliant, eh? Cut price & they will come. If you DO cut price, and they come, but DO NOT BUY, it is BECAUSE YOUR PRICE IS STILL TOO HIGH. That's where Rule 3 kicks in. KEEP CUTTING. AND CUT DEEPER. Then repeat as necessary.What do most Realtors do? Well, most are still stuck on Cloud 9 via Kool-Aid intervenous drip. You no doubt heard about the infamous Buena Vista home blowout, where 230 builder homes will be placed on the auction block at "fire sale" prices. No? Here's a refresher:
Builder aims to clear inventory
Home builder Roger Pollock got a little too excited with Portland's frothy housing market.
Now, he's cashing out -- for whatever his homes will fetch.
Pollock's Lake Oswego company, Buena Vista Custom Homes, built too many houses during the boom in towns from Scappoose to Happy Valley to Bend. Next month, Pollock will put all 230 of his unsold homes and condos up for a two-day auction. The asking prices have ranged from $300,000 to $650,000. The bids will start as low as $69,000.
Portland's housing market remains relatively stable compared to the busted markets in Florida, Ohio and California. But home builders here also sit on a growing backlog of finished but unsold homes. In September, the region had 8.6 months' worth of homes to sell, nearly double the figure from a year earlier.
Home builders, conditioned to be optimists, typically don't like to talk about bad news. It will only discourage consumers, they say, creating more bad news. But Pollock was unusually frank in dissecting his troubles.
"We were over-aggressive and too slow to react to the changes in the market and that has created an over-supply of finished homes," he said in a statement.
Builders nationwide are dreaming up ways to deal with the housing hangover without too much pain.
In Baltimore, Pulte Homes Inc. staged a Halloween-themed "Monster Sale" to sell new townhomes with granite countertops for as low as $480,000. The townhomes sold for $600,000 two years ago.
In Irvine, Calif., builder Lennar Corp. plans to build about 250 homes but leave them off the market rather than discount the prices, the Wall Street Journal reported this week.
Home builders' financial health depends on a host of variables, from their lenders to locations. But short-term trends aren't moving in the industry's direction.
"There's just a lot of stuff sitting out there," said Jerry Johnson, a housing economist in Portland. " . . . This is a pretty unforgiving market right now."
Johnson said this would be the first home auction he's heard of in 18 years in the business.Pollock, 46, of Lake Oswego said life was good during the boom.
He sold as many as 50 homes a month as late as spring 2006. Each sale netted Pollock's company an average of $150,000 in profit. "We made more money than I could ever dream in the last few years," Pollock said in an interview.
But the boom went bust this summer.
A growing number of subprime borrowers -- those with spotty credit -- got behind on mortgage payments or walked away from their loans. The delinquencies exposed questionable lending practices by mortgage brokers who put some buyers in homes they couldn't afford.
The result: tighter loan standards that reduce the pool of buyers for home builders like Pollock.
When the mortgage market took an August nose dive, Pollock said, sales went with it. In October, he sold eight homes. Five previous sales fell through. So his net sales came to three. "That doesn't pay the bills," Pollock said.
Even the closed sales came with discounts that cut into profits. Pollock said he cleared as little as $25,000 per home, an 80 percent drop.
Pollock said he's current on all his construction loans and isn't in danger of bankruptcy. But he decided he'd be better off taking a direct hit now with an auction than suffering a slow bleed with interest payments on construction loans as he struggles to sell off inventory.
That's why Pollock decided on the auction.
Homes at auctions elsewhere have sold for about 40 percent of the original asking price. Pollock said the same figure would be realistic here. He wants to clear all his inventory by the end of the year even if it's "very possible" the company will lose money in the process. "We'll pretty much do whatever it takes," Pollock said.
Despite the auction, Pollock plans to start new subdivisions early next year in Tigard, Oregon City, Southwest Portland and Happy Valley.
Only this time, Pollock said, he'll build only after he has a buyer on the hook.
OK, so we've got this builder who watched the money pile up at $150K a throw, who's finally had it with this MONEY-LOSING thing, and is going to blow 'em out, no matter the cost. Well, ALMOST no matter the cost. Now, what I found interesting was The Realtor and Mortgage Broker Reaction to this housing Armageddon. From the "Active Rain real estate Network" (I know, sounds legit already):
AUCTION, AUCTION -- GET IN AND BUY IT!!
Thankfully, Oregon has been one of the better states so far in terms of foreclosures and defaults...having had less problems than many states. Additionally we have been lucky in not seeing the drastic reductions in home prices. It seems, though, that the challenges for the builders has been tough. This weekend there was a write up in The Oregonian explaining that a custom builder, Buena Vista Custom Homes, will be auctioning off 248 brand new custom homes in Oregon and Washington. With the bidding starting as low as $69,000.00, there are sure to be some great deals on purchases! This is a process that is new to me with the new homes, and it should prove interesting to watch and learn about.
I went online and explored the entire process, so I wanted to share my research findings with you!
This is an excellent opportunity for purchasing. Make certain that you do your homework, investigate the property during the open inspection period, check into the detailed legal descriptions, and make a very educated decision. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this opportunity. And, if you have ever been involved in a situation like this before, please let us know, here, how it works from your perspective! I will be watching, reading, and writing! :)It's a confirmed RE professional post with the obligatory 600 exclamation points per sentence, but what I found amazing (HORRIFIC?), was the INANE comments by other Realtors:
Hi Amy ~ Yes, I agree! It will be interesting to see what transpires. I would imagine that investors would like this prospect. Thanks for reading and commenting. Have a very Happy Thanksgiving!
It looks like some bargains will be had there. With prices starting in the high $60k, that is unbelieveable! That should be an interesting and eventful thing to participate in. Have a Happy
Hi Dave ~ Yes, it should certainly be intriguing! I will try to remember to keep this updated after the event has gone by. It just may be a good idea for a lot of builders out there left holding a big bag of inventory! Like the "google/gobble" Thanksgiving Day!
I recently went to an auction by Liska and Assoc. a big auctioneer of real estate working out of Grants Pass in Oregon. There was no minimum bid, an estate left to the state of Oregon in the heart of the popular Irvinton neighborhood.. You needed a cashiers check for $15k just to bid. I was prepared to bid a bit over $500k for my clients, but the ending bid was over $750k! RMV was only about $800k, and the home an extreme fixer! The buyer's were in a frenzy, and kept bidding higher and higher, it seemed just to "win", at the shock to most of the crowd. I think these homes will be sold at a price that is somewhat discounted, but not at all close to the opening bid! It is an interesting way to sell a home that usually works well per statistics on the Liska and Assoc. website.
Tanya ~ Thank you for sharing your experience. I am looking forward to how this one works out. These homes are brand new, most having never been lived in. I imagine that the minimum bid will be quickly passed up. At the same time, I cannot help but wonder...if these do not sell at a high value, then we are looking at reduced property values in the brand new homes which were sold in the neighboring developments. It should definitely prove interesting! Thanks again for your insight. May your Thanksgiving be richly blessed...
I have been doing some investigating about this. The terms state that there is a reserve price that the bidder must meet in order to win the bid and they won't disclose that price. They do say it's not the low published price they list on their site. Those prices are to generate interest only. The auctioner acts as the sellers agent and can not only open a bid but can continue to bid succesively on top of any other bidders or his own bid until the reserve price is met. I don't know why they won't just start at the reserve price other than it won't sound nearly as good as saying "bids starting as low as $69,000". I suppose there could be deals to be had there but not as good as some people might expect. People really need to make sure they have all there financing in order becasue they have to close in 30 days and if they don't they will lose the 5% down they have to put on the house at the auction. There are some frustrated people out there that have had bad experiences at REDC auctions.
Tim ~ Thanks for dropping by and commenting. I have not yet had a chance to go in and read all of the terms. I ihave, however, read a lot. Somehow I missed the reserve price notice being higher than the published price. That is interesting. Although, I suspected that the low prices are only to generate interest. Why else would a builder oblige in selling that many homes for such a low price? I do think, though, that if you do your homework, a good deal could be had in this opportunity! As for people being frustrated with REDC auctions, I am sure that it is the case. If you look hard enough, people are frustrated with every company for one reason or another. Thanks again for commenting. Feel free to comment again! :)
This seems to be a scam to me. I would not participate in an auction where the reserve price is not stated. You can do all of your due diligence, inspect the property and then be the high bidder and not win if your bid is not as high as the reserve price. The reserve price is above the starting bid and probably quite a bit above the starting bid. If the seller would actually be willing to sell around the starting bid price, assuming little interest in a particular property, they would have opted to have gone with no reserve.
If you are looking for a bargain, you would be better served to look at homes that are for sale and then make an offer to the seller that you believe represents the foreseeable market value. For example, take home auction PE001. The starting bid is $319,000 and the "previously valued at" amount is $509.950. Assuming a 8% decline in values from the appraisal at the time the home was started to the current time, the actual value is likely to be $468,000. However, if you buy at $468,000 you will pay a 5% premium and so any bid over $444,000 will be overpaying. However, the reserve is likely set around the $444,000 amount. The builder could certainly sell the home a little below that price and so he will not be willing to set the reserve much lower than that. By contrast, if you go around the area and find a similar home, you can take your time and make an offer and not worry about being swept up in emotions in a fixed game where the house wins and you lose.
If you think that this type of auction gives you a chance to get a bargain, you have duped by the marketing. You will end up paying market value or higher. A consumer should never be willing to participate in a reserve auction.
Hi Jacob ~ It seems very clear to me that you have done a considerable amount of homework or you have had some measure of "personal" experience with these types of transactions. As one who has never participated in this, let alone heard of such a thing, I am happy to have your input.
Just to clarify, I am by no means suggesting that anyone get "duped" by marketing. Admittedly, on the blog itself, I caution people to do their homework. As you have done so, it appears that for you, this is not the best option. I disagree, however, that someone else cannot get a better deal. It depends on the quantity and quality of your homework. If you have the patience to stand by and make sure that you are getting the best deal, great. In other words...no one is forcing you to bid higher than what your predetermined amount is.
I do respect and admire your passion and the fact that you are willing to share with this group. This is exactly what this type of forum is designed for...open discussion! So, thank you again for your contribution here. Please feel free to watch this blog and continue to make your opinions known. They certainly seem valid to me! :)
Best Regards,
Sarah Eubanks
Hi Sarah. In the terms and conditions it says all properties have a reserve price and the staring bid is not the reserve price. The prices they show on the auction page are the "starting bid" price so that would say to me the reserve price is higher. Has to be, I'm sure he won't take a loss on these homes. I think it's possible to get a deal too, just not what people think they'll get.Tim ~ Thank you for your interest in this topic. I agree with you on most all of this. I am not so sure that the builder is unwilling to take a loss. Additionally, with the profit margin that a builder makes, even at really inexpensive, they would not likely take a loss. On average, a general contractor builds 20 to 30 percent profit margin into the cost of a custom built home. So, if a home costs $300K, the builders profit would account for $60K-$90K. In that respect, the actual cost to the builder then, would of course be somewhere between $240K-$210K.
The other factor which I see being equally important is that the builder may be willing to take a loss on a few of the homes. When his inventory is sitting at almost 250 homes, he needs the capital to continue his source of income. I guess I see it the same way that a car dealership does actually sell loss leaders. It definitely draws the attention of the crowd, and it can be a write off on the losses. I registered for the event so that i can go and check it out. I will then be knowledgeable the next time that I am hear of something like this!
Again, Tim, your knowledge, thoughts, and opinions are greatly appreciated! :)
Seriously, these are all the comments. You see that after some obligatory BACK SLAPPING and GLAD HANDING bullshit (RE Marketing 101: KISS ASS TILL YOU DIE), some Reality-mongers kick-in with their Captain Bringdown Bullshit to "Active" rain on this lovefest parade.You can SEE it. Realtors stuck in BUBBLE MODE, literally cannot communicate with a Reality based consumer. THIS is the problem. They are hoping to MARKET THEIR WAY OUT OF THIS. Won't work. Marketing DOES WORK when the seller Bell Curve overlaps the buyer bell curve in a significant fashion, and you are able to TALK those very close to the left edge over to your side.
This of course IS NOT THE CASE, and never will be until prices COLLAPSE, and the seller bell curve of expectations begins to significantly overlap buyers WILLINGNESS & ABILITY to pay. For the US housing market, this is probably a 25-30% haircut. In Bend it is FAR WORSE, probably more than a CUT IN HALF. Far more.
Get off your Kool-Aid drip folks. The Bubble is NO MORE.
LOOK AT NOVEMBER stats (when they arrive): I can state with LITTLE FEAR of being wrong, that November will be a dead-bang IMPLOSION around here. It will be a total DISASTER. Will prices implode? Probably not. The Kool-Aid intravenous drip is still flowing at full bore. What will happen is NOTHING WILL SELL. The gears have seized up. Christmas in Bend will be Armageddon.
And I think there still remains the occasional straggler that STILL BELIEVES that the purpose of this blog is to KILL THE LOCAL MARKET. Nothing could be more ridiculous. Following the Three Rules will LITERALLY GUARANTEE that ALL HOMES, LOTS, APT BUILDINGS, and useless PILES OF SHIT, WILL SELL, NO MATTER WHAT. The purpose of this blog is NOT to somehow depress the local market, which of course is inanely stupid & impossible, it is to simply be REALISTIC. If you want good old fashioned GLOOM & DOOM from a legit source, well you could do "well" to listen to the CEO of Wells Fargo:
Wells Fargo CEO says housing worst since Great Depression
Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf said Thursday that housing is in the worst shape since the economic devastation of the 1930s.
"We have not seen a nationwide decline in housing like this since the Great Depression," Stumpf told those attending a Merrill Lynch & Co. (NYSE: MER) investment conference.
He anticipates hard times ahead for home owners in financial straits -- and their bankers.
"I don't think we're in the ninth inning of winding this," Stumpf said. "If we are, it's an extra-inning game.
"The losses have turned out to be greater than expected because home prices have declined faster and deeper than expected," said Stumpf, who took the reins at the nation's fifth-largest bank earlier in June. California's Central Valley and the Midwest's auto-manufacturing states (namely, Michigan and Ohio) are creating significant mortgage losses for Wells Fargo & Co. (NYSE: WFC) and other lenders.
Wells expects additional loan losses in the current quarter and into 2008, especially in its home equity loan portfolio. The bank realized $153 million in home equity loan losses in the third quarter.
Still, Stumpf said the bank has "minimal" exposure to collateralized debt obligations and other troubled mortgage-related securities that have prompted other banks to write off a total of $40 billion -- so far.
On Friday, Keefe, Bruyette & Woods downgraded its rating on Wells Fargo's shares to "underperform" from "market perform." In a note to clients, KBW analyst Frederick Cannon said the San Francisco bank enjoys a strong franchise but it will suffer significant loan losses in the declining housing market.
Stumpf told investors that he was unaware of some of exotic mortgage-related investments being made by competitors until reading about them in the newspaper.
"It's interesting that the industry has invented new ways to lose money when the old ways seemed to work just fine," he quipped.
Stumpf's comments this week were more pessimistic than his luncheon remarks last month to the Financial Women's Association of San Francisco.
At that time, he was critical of some of the risky, exotic mortgages offered by competitors in recent years, such as adjustable-rate mortgages that give borrowers a choice on what monthly payment they'd like to make each month. The so-called option ARMs can have negative amortization which means the loan balance rises over time instead of being paid off.
Stumpf said Wells didn't offer such mortgages because it didn't seem right. The San Francisco bank's federal regulators don't allow negative amortization to occur with credit card debt, Stumpf observed, so why offer such loans on the typical borrower's largest and most important asset?
Goldman Economist: $2 Trillion Hit?
Jan Hatzius (right), chief economist at Goldman Sachs, made waves today with a note released last night that put possible credit losses from mortgage defualts at $2 trillion, due to leverage. Hatzius’s anlaysis have drawn attention before: Back in March 2006, Hatzius said U.S. housing was overvalued by about 20%, based on historical relationships between monthly mortgage payments and median household incomes.
Jan Hatzius (Photo: NABE) |
Here are highlights from Thursday’s note:
“Estimates of the likely credit losses on outstanding mortgages have grown sharply in recent months. A back-of-the-envelope calculation using past default experience in different home price environments now suggests losses of around $400 billion. … [O]ne sometimes hears that it is just equivalent to one bad day in the stock market. But this analogy is wrong.”
“[I]f leveraged investors see $200 billion of the $400 billion aggregate credit loss, they might need to scale back their lending by $2 trillion. … This is a large shock. It corresponds to 7% of the total debt owed by US nonfinancial sectors (households, nonfinancial companies, and government).”
“Our conclusion is that the likely mortgage credit losses pose a significantly bigger macroeconomic risk than generally recognized.” – Tim Hanrahan
Every single prediction, EVEN MINE, will be probably proven too conservative. Hatzius predicts a $2 trillion dollar hit, in a $21 trillion market. I mean, SORRY, but that's chicken feed. 10%? The stock market periodically has that much wiped out in ONE DAY. I think we MIGHT have The BIG 14. What's the Big 14? The number of digits required to measure the losses.
Oh yes. The Big $10 TRILLION. Just for some perspective, the GDP of the European Union is $13.9 trillion, the US is $13.5 trillion, and China is $11.6 trillion.
(Yeah, motherfuckin CHINA is within striking distance of overtaking WHITEY as the DOMINANT ECONOMIC FORCE ON THIS PLANET. It ain't MAYBE ANYMORE. Think Wal-Mart vs K-mart in the late 80's. And we AIN'T FUCKIN WAL-MART, THEY ARE. THIS is the story of THE CENTURY in this country. The US & the European Union are about to play second fiddle to China, who will run this little patch of dirt. THAT will be the TRUE DOWNSIDE of this RE BUBBLE bursting: Communist China will take over as The World Economic Power, NOT US. Well, I guess we had a good run.)
Anyway, point is, there are only THREE countries, or conglomerations of countries, that are even close to $10 trillion. Who's after China? Welp, India & Japan are in the $4 trillion area. Germany, UK, France, and Brazil are in the $2's. The you got a lot of pikers in the $1's, like Russia, Italy, Spain, South Korea, Mexico, Canada, and Indonesia.
We are about to lose an amount of money that is only even remotely approached by the GDP of the U.S., China, or the entirety of the EU. Of course, NOTHING of this magnitude has EVER happened before, short of the Great Depression. And back then, we didn't have China holding $1 trillion of our IOU's. We are deluding ourselves if we think this can end well. Even our government leaders have resorted to bald face lying to "talk" this thing up:
Despite clear signs of surging prices in the U.S., the Fed took a major step in undermining its own credibility with its most recent forecast that inflation would remain below 2% for the next three years.
As the forecast clearly paved the way for additional Fed rate cuts, Wall Street ignored its absurdity and heralded the announcement as legitimate good news. The celebration is likely infuriating foreign governments, who must be dumbstruck that the Fed can claim contained inflation at home while the declining dollar is fueling massive inflation problems around the world.
In order to maintain their pegs to the dollar, foreign central banks have been forced to print their own currencies to buy all the dollars accumulated by their exporters. This has resulted in upward pressure on consumer prices in their respective nations, with annual increases now reaching alarming rates. Bernanke’s message of benign neglect means U.S. exported inflation will likely increase substantially in the years ahead, exacerbating the inflation problems for those nations now supporting the dollar.
In December, OPEC nations will convene to discuss continuing their dollar pegs. If they were looking for a reason to drop them, the Fed may have just provided it.
STILL think it's "Not so Bad"? Think again. The VERY INFRASTRUCTURE of home lending is IMPLODING:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - If anyone thinks the current U.S. housing downturn is bad now, things would get far worse if Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac were to suddenly stop buying mortgages, a move that would drive up the costs of home loans and devastate the economy. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the nation's two largest sources of mortgage finance respectively, recently reported combined losses of $3.5 billion. Borrowing costs have skyrocketed and investors have erased billions of dollars in each company's equity market capitalizations. Few think the two companies are likely to pull out of the housing market, even temporarily. However, if the stream of home loan failures were to force the companies to suspend new mortgage investments, the market for mortgage bonds would "freeze up," said Tom Sowanick, chief investment officer of Clearbrook Financial LLC Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac own or guarantee a combined $4.8 trillion of U.S. home mortgage loans of more than 40 percent of the total outstanding.
If you don't think it'll get bad, then think about this: In the Good Old Days, you had to have something on the order of 20-25% DOWN to buy a house. Then it went to 10-15%. This actually almost DOUBLES the amount of house you can buy, when the required down is halved. But not quite, because INCOME STILL MATTERED back then. The down payments were cut to 5%, and 2%, and 1%, and finally NOTHING. But through most of those slashing downpayment requirements, there was STILL some semblance of INCOME required. In 2003-2006, the income requirement was finally FRAUDED-OVER, and there could be technically be an INFINITE amount of house bought by ANYONE. And of course that's exactly what happened.
Ultimately, Bubbles burst when SOMEONE pulls their head out (usually a stick in the mud banker, bearing more than a cursory resemblance to BendBB, I'll bet), and actually wants to GET PAID ON THEIR LOAN. Well, since there was NO INCOME except for the self-supporting mechanism of a housing ATM, the entire Ponzi scheme implodes spectacularly.
$2 trillion? I don't think so. That's linear thinking. Think vicious cycle, self reinforcing geometric IMPLOSION. THAT yields something closer to $10 TRILLION. And $10 trillion yields New Economic Superpower, and it ain't us. We will rue the day we heaped praise on this BUBBLE thing.
I've often said The Implosion of The Local Bend Housing Bubble is the Biggest Story In The History Of Bend. And I suppose it is, but what will be "covered" will be the After-Effects: The implosion of downtown, mass population exodus, "Siberian" ghost towns & destination resorts (ie Subdiv chameleons). But one story will probably overwhelm them all, and it is coming SOON: There will come a day SOON, when it is announced on the Nightly News, that we are #2. Our venerated spot of 800lb gorilla will unceremoniously go to China. But what I GUARANTEE YOU WILL NOT HEAR, is that the RE Bubble is THE NUMBER ONE, SINGLE PRIMARY CAUSE. Then several years later, it'll HAPPEN AGAIN, except this time it'll be India. We'll be #3. Then, it'll happen again again, and again. We'll be somewhere in the top 10, but I'll GUARANTEE you right now, that by the time your kids are thinking of retirement, we'll be Second Rate. You'll be able to look at a 50 year chart of growth, and a rapid deceleration of WHITEY WORLD will be pegged to RIGHT NOW.
The BEST POSSIBLE THING THAT COULD HAPPEN? A rapid, complete & total annihilation of the US RE market. The faster it is over, the faster we can rebuild. Here's "17 reasons America needs a recession: Think positive, this 'slow motion train wreck' is good for the U.S."
When you get sick, your body goes into Healing Mode: It ain't fun -- it sucks -- but it is how the virus is purged. This country is desperately FUCKED UP. Sleeping outside of Best Buy to go shopping the day after Thanksgiving? WTF is that? This place has become a consumerist-fueled nightmare of excess. "Green" marketing, is purportedly about reusing what we have to conserve resources. But of course it has been bastardized by Corporate America (I am a Republican, for God's sake!), to schill MORE SHIT WE DON'T NEED. We worship LOSERS like Brittany & Paris, who are famous for NO OTHER REASON, than they are famous. THEY ARE FUCKIN LOW LIFE LOSERS -- yet in today's America they are adored.
We are so fuckin' dead. Corporate America has convinced us that our Very Souls are tied to CONSUMPTION. Feel like shit? Buy an X-box. Business going to shit? Go out & get an Escalade. It's often said the rest of the World wants what America has. I sure as hell hope that ain't true, cuz what we have is fuckin pathological.
We NEED a recession, or WORSE. We need to get some RATIONAL VALUES again. If there is one Good Thing that comes out of the Economic Armageddon that is coming our way courtesy of the RE Bubble Implosion, hopefully it is THAT; That we are turned from a bunch of whiny ass, litigious, frivolous, fame-worshipping, airhead consumerist lunatics to real people again who don't value our existence based on the amount of shit we have lying around a house we can't afford.
I want to end this lovefest, with a review of why a violation of the Three Rules by a local builder, left their genitals whithered & useless. Last Sunday, the Bulletin summarized the recent "auction" by Brooks of their last 3 RiverWild condos, "How builders plan to face housing slide". Of course this WAS NOT a real auction. A real auction is WELL ADVERTISED (like this one), draws financially able buyers (like this one), and let's the market SET THE PRICE (UNLIKE this one).
Of course, there were ridiculous minimums set on these 3 RiverWild dogs. Who could forget the Oct 12 puffery, meant to get our Pavlovian Consumerist tongues slobbering uncontrollably:
Developer will auction townhomes
Brooks knocked $99,000 to $184,000 off the asking price of each of the three 2,000-square-foot units to come up with minimum bid prices, Rosenthal said. One was reduced from $839,000 to $640,000; another from $839,000 to $625,000; and the third, which comes equipped “down to the corkscrew” with $40,000 worth of furniture, was slashed from $879,000 to $695,000.
Of course, the title of the piece is a misnomer, there was no "auction". Per wikipedia:
An auction is the process of buying and selling goods by offering them up for bid, taking bids, and then selling the item to the winning bidder. In economic theory, an auction is a method for determining the value of a commodity that has an undetermined or variable price.
Of course, the Brooks sale doesn't fit this definition. A more accurate title for this piece SHOULD HAVE BEEN: "Brooks marks down townhomes, hopes for sale". Of course this is dead boring & pedestrian, happens everyday. Even the Buena Vista "auction" doesn't really qualify. A REAL AUCTION let's the market set the price. This WILL NOT HAPPEN.
Look what happened when Brooks even attempted a FAKE AUCTION: 2/3rds FAILURE RATE. And that's AFTER a 25% price reduction. See? Rule #3 VIOLATED, HENCE FAILURE.
You wanna fail? Just do Rule 1, or 2, but not all 3. And the SLOWER you pursue these rules the LONGER it takes & THE LOWER the price you will ultimately sell for.
This thing WILL NOT END, until we hit rock bottom. It is your PATRIOTIC DUTY to drop the price on every house you have for sale 30% RIGHT NOW. Then keep dropping. You will do it anyway, I can GUARANTEE YOU THAT.
Look at Hollern: He dropped 25% in one shot, and STILL HAD A 2/3rds FAILURE RATE. And he had a sleazy angle, lots of press, and tons of money. You? You got shit. You got a stable of wildly overpriced CRAP. Drop it 40% now, and you MIGHT sell one or two. I'm saying this to help people get 'er done. They will actually realize that MASSIVE, DRASTIC price drops are THE ONLY THING THAT'LL WORK.
And everytime you even THINK that your dumbass 5 or 10% price reduction will have ANY IMPACT WHATSOEVER, remember that Brooks has 1,000,000% more resources than you, AND THEY COULD NOT MAKE A 25% PRICE DROP WORK. The left tail of the sellers bell curve & the right tail of the buyers ARE STILL MILES APART AFTER A 25% PRICE CUT. That should tell you where True Equilibrium is:
Needless to say, we are in uncharted territory. This graphs distills a debt-fueled hedonistic nightmare of frenzied consumerism that will ultimately claim the entirety of the US economy as it's victim.
After a DECADE of steadily deteriorating lending practices, the jig is up. The American Ponzi Lending Scheme Apocalypse is near. CASH will not just be King, it'll be everything from lowly serf on up.
Case-Shiller shows clearly that a fall back to 120 would be easily achievable, and that's a 33% haircut. Charting Bend on this same graph would be a line that goes vertical & off the chart in the 2003-2005 area. A CUT IN HALF is probably THE BEST possible, mega-OPTIMISTIC scenario for this little patch of scrub we call home.
The Kübler-Ross model describes, in five discrete stages, the process by which people deal with grief and tragedy, especially when diagnosed with a terminal illness. The model was introduced by Elisabeth Kübler-Ross in her 1969 book "On Death and Dying". The stages have become well-known as the "Five Stages of Grief".
- Denial: The initial stage: "It can't be happening."
- Anger: "Why ME? It's not fair!" (either referring to God, oneself, or anybody perceived, rightly or wrongly, as "responsible")
- Bargaining: "Just let me live to see my child(ren) graduate."
- Depression: "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"
- Acceptance: "It's going to be OK."
The company also announced plans to move its main Bend real estate office from Awbrey Butte, where it has been for years, into the company’s headquarters building on Franklin Avenue downtown. Its three-member mortgage group spun off to form a new company, Hollern said, and three of its 17 Bend-based real estate brokers have left for new careers or retirement.
Those 3 Realtors that blew up, are actually very prescient or lucky. Of course, Hollern still has to put a Happy Face on this debacle. I know for a fact that the "3-member mortgage group spun off to form a new company", was in reality turned into a 3-man cotton candy wagon at the circus. You DON'T "spin off" that sort of crap. That's like me saying I'm going to "SPIN OFF" this fuckin blog. OK, 100% BULLSHIT. This sort of NON-SALABILITY characterizes so many Central Oregon businesses, it's overwhelming. Brooks Resources itself is TOTALLY UNSALABLE. Because it LOSES MONEY? Hell no, it's made a fortune. But like a one man law firm or accountant, the ONLY thing worth 2 cents is the people, who would promptly walk out the door after a sale.
Anway, back to grief. This thing has already taken over a year for stage 1, so it seems reasonable to think latter stages will take AT LEAST as long.
Yes. The ONLY loans performing WORSE than the Bubble loans of 2005-2006 are the Bubble Loans of 2007! We are still in the teeth of making HORRIBLY ill-advised loans on houses. Except now it is driven by a complete deterioration of the fundamentals. Shore up lending standards ALL YOU WANT, and still we'll see defaults at a HEMORRHAGING rate. Look at some of these jewels of insight:
"The recent weakness in job growth and falling home prices in many parts of the country have probably contributed to the higher default rates on loans from early this year, specialists say. Job losses in the housing industry have put pressure on the economies of formerly fast-growing states like Arizona and Florida. And declining home prices have made it harder for borrowers to refinance loans, especially in cases where the buyers could afford the homes only with the help of the low introductory rates on adjustable mortgages.
Those borrowers are expected to encounter further strain in the months and years ahead as their loans are reset to higher variable rates. When they try to refinance their mortgages, many of them will face stricter lending standards. Many lenders are now requiring borrowers to provide documentation of their incomes, and they will not lend more than 80 to 90 percent of a house’s value.
A survey of 500 borrowers with adjustable-rate loans released yesterday in Cleveland showed that the resetting of rates will put a significant strain on homeowners."
Wow. So there'll be job loss as a result of the bursting of the biggest speculative bubble of all time? Really? Further strain on borrowers as their rates reset & their payments double? You don't say!Funny, that I & the giants on whose shoulders I stand (you are a giant BEM, right?) have been saying this stuff FOR 2 YEARS! Man, no wonder it feels like I'm whistling in the wilderness.
Folks, remember that WAYYYY back, BEM, I and others were reviled & ridiculed for even suggesting there even was a bubble. Of course, now it's common knowledge & the lead story on the nightly news. NOW, believe me when I tell you that this thing has not even seen the full light of day. AND that Bend will be orders of magnitude WORSE than the US as a whole. The losses in this region will simply boggle the mind. Case studies for Harvard Business School in 20 years & such. We will achieve infamy as being the single greatest speculative local hotbed, in the greatest speculative bubble, ever achieved in modern history. We will also achieve the dubious honor as the greatest specualtive implosion in US real estate market history, EVER.
This blog & it's cohorts have been DEAD RIGHT to date... maybe it's time you figure out that this thing isn't going to be "OK" in a month, or a year, or even 2. It's Calamityville, OK. You will not be able to believe how bad it'll get. In 10 years you won't even recognize this place.
150 comments:
And speaking of GoBend Realty, what happened to them? They have a brand spanking new building on the SW corner of 3rd & Wilson that has been vacant for months. Did they blow up?
I also think we've got a chance in Nov of going below the DEADLY 100 units sold mark in monthly sales. Think of it this way: 100 sales @ $400K X 6% yields $2.4MM for local Realtors split about 2,000 ways.
That's $1,200 GROSS TAKE HOME PAY. That does NOT count office, marketing, or other expenses. I'll bet 50-75% of local Realtors will run at a decent loss this Winter. The old grizzled pros will love that... finally a purge of the noobs.
Homer, Where's the pictures? No humor?
What's happened to you? Why the pessimism?
Smile, be happy, things are going to get better
Just checked COR: 1,400 residential listings in Bend vs 1,280 at this time last year. It hit rock bottom of 1,112 in Dec of 2006 before turning up & peaking at 1,624 in Aug of this year.
I remember last year at this time, watching inventory fall & really wondering if it was actually indicative of Realtors actually being right that the "Spring will save us all".
Now? I ain't one bit worried. The highest sales month in the past year was last MARCH! MARCH? Yes, March! At 157 solds. Oct was the worst. Then Sept, then JULY! Notice the pattern: It's NOT some sort of seasonal Glory Days anymore. It's this: As time goes by, IT GETS WORSE. THAT is the Bend RE DOMINANT TREND. Spring & Summer bailout? Kiss that shit goodbye. It is JUST GETTING WORSE DAY BY DAY.
Homer, Where's the pictures? No humor?
What's happened to you? Why the pessimism?
This old wino staggers into a bar and the barman immediately told him to get out. The tramp said that he would only leave if the barman gave him a cocktail stick.
The barman, thinking this was a fair exchange, gladly gave the man a cocktail stick and watched him stagger back outside.
A minute later another old wino walked into the bar and got asked to leave by the barman. This drunk also demanded a cocktail stick if he was to leave quietly. There had been no trouble the first time so, once again, the barman obliged and the old drunk quietly left.
Soon after, a third wino came into the barman and without hesitation the barman offered him a cocktail stick to leave. This time though the drunk turned him down and said he would only leave if the barman gave him a drinking straw.
Curiosity finally got the better of the barman and he asked the old drunk why he wanted a drinking straw when the other two drunks had asked for cocktail sticks.
The wino said "Well, someone was sick outside and all the lumpy bits have gone now!"
They have a new tactic: they all get up and leave the Council Chambers and go to the smaller Boardroom.
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That's easy, just follow them into the room. I remember years ago another tactic they had was hire a private security gorilla to intimidate the stragglers to make them leave.
We're taxpayers, we have a right to be in ALL public buildings, just hold your ground, and always have a recorder going in plain sight, you would not believe what that little recorder does to the cock-roaches.
Regarding the les schwab deal, its clear that ALL our elected officials are potted plants, they all knew the LS agreement was a bad deal, but they did it anyway! WHY? Because anderson told them they had too, WHY? Because EDCO told anderson HE had too, WHY? Because Judge Cooper up in Priny-vile said they had too, ...
Like KURATEK said two years ago, central-oregon is a good ol-boyz place, it doesn't really matter who is elected, because its the good old-boyz behind the scenes that call the shots, and tell the electable what to do,
Now bruce recently mentioned, something that I have observed, and that is that NOBODY goes to fucking public meeting except those that are making money off being there. This is a sad indictment of the area. It would only take 1/2 dozen regular people with tape recorders, and these days video phones, ... If one of the CUNTS said 'executive session' we would have that on the blogs everywhere, and be making fun of them, and they would stop the shit, but what's been happening for years now is they get away with shit, and the BULL&SORE doesn't do their job, and thus we get what we get.
I say bruce, recruit young folks to get involved, and attend public meetings and bring recorders, and phones with video or video recorders, and we'll have the public shit cleaned up in no time,
Now that there is not much money for little guys, they'll not be eating at the trough, les-schwab, hollern, will still be trying to steal from city-hall, knife-river will still be trying to create the next big dig, ...
It's an endless process, and bruce, contrary to what you said, at the end of the day, no one will be greatful, nor care that you wasted your time, this is the nature of politics.
I promise, next week I'm going to do The Hard Number thing again. Truthfully, I'm not much of a ranter. I'm more of a quant at heart. Unfortunately, this thing doesn't really lend itself to rapid analysis. Slow cold molasses is what this is. Data comes out so slow & infrequently that I have to go to other material 75% of the time. Also notice that KTVZ & The Bulletin have almost STOPPED covering RE, which they covered at a frenetic pace when things were headed up. Head in sand approach.
Me, BEM & others have been saying the sky is falling for a year+, and all you hear from local media, is things will get better tomorrow... so GO AHEAD & BUY. WRONG. Things will get WORSE TOMORROW... then even WORSE AFTER THAT.
Now? I ain't one bit worried. The highest sales month in the past year was last MARCH! MARCH? Yes, - homer
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Last winter shit got bad, by Feb 07, those that had their homes on the market that wanted to sell did so, I was making lots of low ball offers back then, late jan/feb was the best, most close in march.
This winter, it will be the same, by Feb it will be clear to those that think spring is going to bring something to see the light, thus folks will take the low-balls.
The problem is that fewer and fewer low balls will be actually sold, here is why.
Folks had to buy pre 2000 to have bought at $120k for a Bend home with an ASK in 2006 of $500k, and in Feb07, they took $250k.
More & More of the folks that MUST sell now are post 2002 buyers, they HAVE no equity, they have no cash, and they have no 401k. They cannot accept a low-ball, because they're under water.
Thus I think ever year now, fewer and fewer will sell in future winters.
Nobody is buying in Bend anymore, because everyone knows the shit is over-priced, those that MUST sell go desperate by Jan/Feb, and that is a good time for bottom feeding low-ballers to write offers.
I'm too old to place this game anymore, its now going to be twenty years until there is a high again, so this is a young persons age, by that I mean 30 would be ideal. Buy homes on the decline, get nice clean homes that can pencil and rent, get a fixed 15 yr loan, and by the time the property's are payed off we'll you'll be at the next high.
I don't think you can go wrong as long as you purchase 4X homes which is $160k-$240k, even at $240k with $48k, down with a $190k loan it will pencil, e.g. your renter is paying your MTG.
Homer has said many times here this is a bad investment, but look at this way, look how many people lost their money in the stock market, mtg market, ... right now tons of lost money. I have NEVER lost money in real estate, it take a long time, but buy-low, and wait, I never sell.
Ok, I do sell right now is good time to sell the dogs that don't rent well, for instance commercial is out over a year now to rent, that means that my commercial's have to sit empty for a year to find an tenant, I hate this, so that stuff is going to be sold.
With nice single-family homes in nice hoods, the time to rent is still six weeks, quiet, near schools, low traffic, walk to stores, young people with good jobs like that shit.
I had to write the above, because HOMER is so FUCKING negative this week.
Having been through many OREGON recessions, this one will be like all the prior. BUY RE LOW, make sure your the best at what you do, so you'll always have an income. You'll be fine.
So, remind me again why our brilliant leaders are rushing headlong into $10 million of debt backed "by the full faith and credit" of the City. The latest JR Cost Detail has a bottom line of $12,631,884.
And we've got to spend another $15 to $30 million on more road improvements as required by ODOT to sell any more land. Which any buyer with a clue is going to demand to pay no more than Les Scwhab.
So what happens when we are sitting on the LS/JR white elephant in a couple of years?
This:
"Funding/Financing of Costs(assuming land sales Do Not occur within 2 years)
If land sale do not occur within 2 years, General Fund discretionary revenues or other revenue sources will be needed to repay the line of credit.
Some alternative revenue sources are as follows:
Sale of Bulletin Site – A portion of proceeds from sale of the Bulletin site may be used to retire the line of credit.
Loan from BURA Downtown District - Proceeds from sale of the Greenwood/Wall property will generate $3.5 M in FY 08-09 and a portion of those proceeds may be
loaned to the Juniper Ridge District to retire some of the line of credit and reduce interest costs paid to the bank. The Juniper Ridge District will then repay the Downtown District when land sale occurs beyond 2 years.
Redirect General Fund Discretionary Revenues – Currently discretionary revenues support public safety, street operations, transit, accessibility
and other programs. Redirecting general fund discretionary revenues to repay the line of credit will be necessary if none of the above options provide the revenues to repay the line of credit."
Specifically, the bolded part, because we both no that those potential land sales ain't going to bring in anything close to what they think they will. Hell, it's already happening, because if you read a little further, you get:
"On-going Staffing and Operating Costs
On-going staffing, operating and overhead costs total approx, $400,000 and are not factored into the costs or funding/financing above. These costs will need to be funded by general discretionary revenues, property sale proceeds or financed with additional debt."
This fucking boondoggle is going to go on your BB Tombstone, sooner rather than later.
We should have just bought the Plaza from Becky and gifted it to LS. It would have been a lot fucking cheaper.
And three lanes and a double roundabout would be a hell of lot more fucking useful at the west end of Reed Market than as a driveway for Les Fucking Schwab.
Hey, it looks like on of the 50+ homes for sale near me finally sold: http://www.trulia.com/homes/Oregon/Bend/sold/897987-1190-SW-SILVER-LAKE-BLVD-BEND-OR-97702
And for the bargain price of $408K, only $189/sq ft. I'll have to walk down and take a look at it later.
So cut the doom and gloom, Homer. Something is still selling!
I promise, next week I'm going to do The Hard Number thing again.
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Your missing the point homer.
Your best with pictures I want to see inflatable women as 'bend' with LS agreements in all their orifices, this is the best of home, not his numbers.
This weeks post is very good, lots of numbers, and current info, that the BIG boys are NOW comparing the RE glut with the great depression.
I did notice that downtown was quiet on thur, but like duncan said wednesday was busy. BUT FRIDAY & SAT was packed downtown, cars all the way down drake-park.
Deschutes brewpub was packed even at 2pm on fri/sat, sure nobody was shopping, but so fucking what, all of downtown is now restaurants, salons, RE shops, ... BUT DOWNTOWN WAS PACKED with people, and St Francis was packed, went to the movie last night, and it was the longest line I had ever seen.
Most of the tourists at the Deschutes yesterday were out of town, and talking of real-estate, asking fucking questions like "I want to buy some Bend, where should I be looking". The common thing they say is they heard that Bend has 'deals', thus the marketing is working they're coming and they're looking. That said, most the old timers are looking to get out, the common thing I here from guys with dozen houses, is they want to buy 100 acres on North Vancouver Island ( canada ), and get the fuck out of 'bend', because the city-hall is fucked, the politics is fucked, and that which brought them to bend is fucked.
I think the bars were packed this weekend, because there was NO snow, did you see yesterdays BULL, they had a picture of kids in the snow on a whole page and text, and the small text by the pic's said COLORADO, here it is thanksgiving and the BULL had to use pic's from COLORADO to show people playing in the snow!!!!!!!!!!
There are buyers, but they don't know what the fuck they're doing, for RE this could be a good thing. There are sellers, but fewer have any margin to DROP the price as you suggest.
Just providing feedback, I think whats useful is we all pool our perspectives. I think the new people want a piece of Bend, but the MAJORITY of old timers that I know sitting on TONS of RE here all want to SELL and get OUT!!!!!!! That I find is very interesting, again I'm in for the long haul, I don't want to die here, but there is no where much better.
I have talked with a lot of builders that came over from the valley in the early 80's, they have all seen the best of times for over twenty years in Bend, they all agree with what Hollern said, its going to be 20 years before it comes back, most have ALL their money tied in RE, most of boats in Bellingham, most would rather be fishing, now that you can NO longer make money in Bend.
And for the bargain price of $408K, only $189/sq ft. I'll have to walk down and take a look at it later.
WHAT? $189/sf for THAT area? My God, that's crazy. Folks, you want the current bargains, they're over in DESERT SKEEZE on the East side at $99/sf! HALF PRICE!
We should have just bought the Plaza from Becky and gifted it to LS. It would have been a lot fucking cheaper. - bruce
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Homer, he's right, and its NOT to late, the plaza would make a great LS HQ, and has a view, the at essential view that borgman MUST have.
Not a fucking dime of LS money has been spent to date, while over $12M of city money on LS/JR, so lets fucking stop LS/JR, and give the PLAZA to LS??? Why Not?
Then the city can sell JR to real industrial users as was planned 20 years ago by county.
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The real longterm outcome of LS/JR is to sell everything in Bend to pay for LS, that includes powell-butte, and all city parks, and shevlin, everything MUST be sold in order to pay for the LS fiasco.
Don't laugh, this is how republicans operate, bankrupt a city force sales of valuable land, so the rich can get richer, this is real story behind LS-JR to FUCK ALL OF BEND.
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Bruce, one last thing you have to know, even though BEM&HOMER appear to be funny, they're really MBA's, and they really love the system.
Ah, Canada. We're thinking Revelstoke, BC. Or maybe somewhere in Okanagan Valley.
Of course, since my namesake has moved out, it must be time. Or a sign. Or something. That the OK Valley is somewhere in my future.
Hey Guys,
I was going to move to Bend and live the good life — until I read this blog. Thanks for saving me the heartache, money, and peace of mind (and nightmares).
But I really need to know one thing — why is Bend the "epicenter" of the RE bubble? Why is it so different and worse than any other popular small Western town, like Boise, Spokane, Missoula, or dozens of others? What makes you so "special"? I really want to know.
For the record, I lived there in the 60s when I was a kid.
Thx
Well Paul-Doh,
This weeks post did miss some of the biting humor I love so much however, I believe you are correct on your outlook as pessimistic as it is. On a sidebar note; does our historically inaccurate holiday make you crazy as well? I know I allow myself to be extra crappy on this weekend. (It's hard to love this lame ass holiday when you are one of the Indians) lol.
Dottiebug
But I really need to know one thing — why is Bend the "epicenter" of the RE bubble? Why is it so different and worse than any other popular small Western town, like Boise, Spokane, Missoula, or dozens of others? What makes you so "special"? I really want to know.
Quick Summary:
Feb 2004 Medians: $180's
Sept 2006 Medians: $380K
Income essentially UNCH
Sole factor increasing prices was Cali Bubble... that's over.
Builders Gone Wild VIII out on DVD
Local City Gov't setting tax dollars on fire at MILLIONS per year. Plus they're completely corrupt.
CURRENT SITUATION:
VAST Siberian desert of unsold spec homes
1000's of acres of Chameleon subdiv's (ie "Destination Resorts") being built & on the drawing boards.
Record vacancy rate
Local economy has triple weight in construction, RE brokerage, MTG all of which is 100% BUSTED.
There's more, but those are the Biggies.
I was think of coming to Bend, and having a family, building a home, and starting business.
I think now I'll leave my, wife quit work, and become a street person in Portland.
Read this blog has made me despise the world. Bend is the epicenter of misery, human misery.
This is another nail in the coffin, courtesy of Larry Summers, Clintons' SecTreas:
"Three months ago it was reasonable to expect that the subprime credit crisis would be a financially significant event but not one that would threaten the overall pattern of economic growth. This is still a possible outcome but no longer the preponderant probability
...
Several streams of data indicate how much more serious the situation is than was clear a few months ago. First, forward-looking indicators suggest that the housing sector may be in free-fall from what felt like the basement levels of a few months ago. Single family home construction may be down over the next year by as much as half from previous peak levels. There are forecasts implied by at least one property derivatives market indicating that nationwide house prices could fall from their previous peaks by as much as 25 per cent over the next several years.
We do not have comparable experiences on which to base predictions about what this will mean for the overall economy, but it is hard to believe declines of anything like this magnitude will not lead to a dramatic slowing in the consumer spending that has driven the economy in recent years."
And then you get:
"What concrete steps are necessary? First, maintaining demand must be the over-arching macro-economic priority. That means the Fed has to get ahead of the curve and recognise – as the market already has – that levels of the Fed Funds rate that were neutral when the financial system was working normally are quite contractionary today. As important as long-run deficit reduction is, fiscal policy needs to be on stand-by to provide immediate temporary stimulus through spending or tax benefits for low- and middle-income families if the situation worsens."
Source: Financial Times, here http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b56079a8-9b71-11dc-8aad-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1
So when are people going to get a clue that there are not enough people to fill all the Mc Mansions?
Unless we let the Mexicans in--they could fill them up just fine.
Re: Bend is the epicenter of human misery...
You sound like all the Vets I see with signs asking for food money. They have staked out corners, kind of like the ho's in San Fran.
It's not that bad. Unless you have a few spec homes.
To me, the worst part long term is the revision of the Bankruptcy Law, which will ensure that anyone that is foreclosed will spend the rest of their life paying of that old loan. Ain't going to much demand for another mortgage from those folks..
>>And speaking of GoBend Realty, what happened to them?
This reminds me of a RUMOR I heard. Please say so if it's not true.
There was a mortgage or title company located near Old Mill that built a new building downtown right at the peak. I heard they just had their ribbon cutting this summer for the new building. Now I hear that building is for sale.
Sorry. I know it's vague, but I overheard it. Anyone know any more?
I think now I'll leave my, wife quit work, and become a street person in Portland.
Read this blog has made me despise the world. Bend is the epicenter of misery, human misery.
Don't do it!
Actually, you're PERFECT for Bend. Believe ANYTHING you read... man, they'll love you! These fuckers spend a mint on MARKETING... be nice if it didn't fall on deaf ears.
C'mon. Stick around. They need you.
the worst part long term is the revision of the Bankruptcy Law, which will ensure that anyone that is foreclosed will spend the rest of their life paying of that old loan.
*
No bruce, your only looking at the the 1/2 empty cup, the best part is that these folks will be sitting in debtors prisons, and there children will never own homes,
The new bankruptcy laws guarantee that these folks will be in debt their whole lives, and guarantee that their children will most likely be losers.
Never underestimate the desire of the status quo and their lack of desire having their offspring compete. The future of America will be that the losers always be losers, and the haves always be haves, this economic cleansing is going to change the USA forever.
Unless we let the Mexicans in--they could fill them up just fine.
*
Bruce this is the actual suggestion of the alleviation of the problem.
Mexicans and Prisons, are the bread and butter of central oregon.
They have a new tactic: they all get up and leave the Council Chambers and go to the smaller Boardroom.
*
That's easy, just follow them into the room. I remember years ago another tactic they had was hire a private security gorilla to intimidate the stragglers to make them leave.
We're taxpayers, we have a right to be in ALL public buildings, just hold your ground, and always have a recorder going in plain sight, you would not believe what that little recorder does to the cock-roaches.
------------------
So true. If you publish a blog, you are a publisher abd it's own reporter. If you have your tape recorder rolling, they will have to let you in. Or else they will have to call the cops to have you removed, which they have never done (to my knowledge), because of fear of lawsuits.
But if you go in as the reporter for your blog, you have to abide by the law that states that you can attend, but can't report on what you here in Exec Session. And if you think that their Exec Session violates certain subsections, have your blog's lawyer reading to argue your case. The Bulletin's lawyer has previously buffalo'ed other Exec Sessions.
they will have to call the cops to have you removed, which they have never done (to my knowledge), because of fear of lawsuits.
*
Not, true this is why they hire private security guards. This is the this discrete scenario, the same reason state department hires black-water and makes them exempt from prosecution, besides the sheriff is required to protect judges, nobody is required to protect city council, thus they hire private guards, who are quite often dress in civilian attire, look around sometime.
Behind every silver lining in Central Oregon, there is a prison!
Many see silver lining amid slower growth
Larger retailers aren’t coming, but niche companies are sprouting up
By Jeff McDonald / The Bulletin
Published: November 26. 2007 5:00AM
The housing slowdown has cooled new-home construction throughout Central Oregon, but the remodeling business remains strong, Abbe said.
“People are fixing up what they already have,” she said. “We’ve been astonished by the response so far.”
The opening of the minimum- and medium-security Deer Ridge Correctional Institution east of town also will help business when prison employees start shopping for homes in Madras, she said.
“We really feel Madras has been underestimated,” Todd said. “It’s our intent to serve areas that others feel are a low priority. It has so much potential with the prison and its economic growth that we thought it deserved a full-service business.”
I love this site. I just Love This Site.
I'm a renter, my parents were renters. Nobody in our family ever bought a home. I always thought I was a loser. This site gives renters a superior feeling to home owners.
Where else can renters hang out, and make fun of home owners?
Renters are the smartest people in Bend, and people who buy houses are the dumbest. If you own a home, you don't belong on this site, your a low life.
Much of Bend is about steal federal and state money, this is why Kuratek, and Garzini are idols in Bend, the write block-grants. Read the following carefully, by having buses in place, even though they don't run, the city gets $3.5M in State money, and theres more to match coming for federal. This BAT-MEN can see why it didn't mattter if the buses ran, all that matters is that the city have a fleet of buses, to say they need a regional bus station, keep the money coming, and keep the builders busy spending state and federal money.
Bend aims for a transit hub
Everything from cabs to Greyhound tickets could be in one place if city gets $3.5M grant
By Peter Sachs / The Bulletin
Published: November 26. 2007 5:00AM PST
A $3.5 million state grant request could help create a much-needed regional transportation hub in Bend, giving riders one place to go to board buses from around the state.
The city of Bend has applied for the grant through Connect Oregon II, a state program that provides money for transportation projects
Bend aims for a transit hub
Everything from cabs to Greyhound tickets could be in one place if city gets $3.5M grant
*
That's a big 'IF', then again with $3.5M the city could use it to payoff part of the $9M water fiasco lawsuit they just lost on.
Getting buses that don't run is great way to say you have a transit system, then the state/federal money starts flowing in, which you then bait&switch, and use for other projects, like paying off lawsuits.
How much? $10M water, $10M kuratek, $5M BAT-MEN ( bus ) fiasco, there are probably other lawsuits pending that the city is working on losing.
DVA/VCB $250k for movie to be shown in PDX as a commercial, escape the rain, come to Bend to buy a condo.
Classic recession play in Bend, when the calis can't and don't come, then bring in the dead from Portland.
***
http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071125/BIZ0102/711250345/1001&nav_category=
***
All area has to offer, in movie-trailer form
Visitors association, Mt. Bachelor target more than skiers in latest ad campaign
By Jeff McDonald / The Bulletin
Published: November 25. 2007 5:00AM PST
Portlanders accustomed to dark, dreary, traffic-clogged winters will have a contrasting image to view on their television sets starting next month: a movielike trailer portraying Central Oregon as the land of blue skies, powdery snow, elegant fare, snow angels and sleigh rides.
That’s what the Central Oregon Visitors Association and Mt. Bachelor ski area are planning as part of their $250,000 cooperative marketing campaign, “Real Winter,” which is funded equally by the region’s largest tourism promoter and its largest winter attraction.
if you think that their Exec Session violates certain subsections, have your blog's lawyer reading to argue your case. The Bulletin's lawyer has previously buffalo'ed other Exec Sessions.
*
That's it, brilliant, spend $250/hr or perhaps even $500/hr on have your 'blogs lawyer' present at a city meeting so that you can attend an executive sesssion.
Brilliant, brilliant, an attorney pension guarantee fund not seen since M37, or M48.
>>I'm a renter, my parents were renters. Nobody in our family ever bought a home. I always thought I was a loser.
I think you probably were. The truly smart had houses to sell at the top.
Right now, you're smart to be a renter in the sense that a stopped watch is right twice a day.
I think you probably were. The truly smart had houses to sell at the top.
Right now, you're smart to be a renter in the sense that a stopped watch is right twice a day.
Yup, dead right.
But this is going to be one LONG motherfuckin day.
Where else can renters hang out, and make fun of home owners?
Renters are the smartest people in Bend, and people who buy houses are the dumbest. If you own a home, you don't belong on this site, your a low life.
Soak it up while you can. This will be the greatest town to be a renter in EVER though... for the foreseeable future. Which is probably going to be 15-20 years.
http://www.tsweekly.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2204&Itemid=153
Bruce,
Come over to the source, and discuss your exec-ls agreement.
You'll never get homer or bem to discuss it they only beat down old RE horses or weak women ( becky ), they're terrified of looking at Schwab or Brooks ( Hollern ), most likely because if your an MBA in Bend, and you piss off either these guys your fucked.
Hey dumb fucking 'cunts' this is quite interesting. Remember the other day 'Tetherow' fired their PR firm and got a new one? ( see last comment thread )
Well today a well known rich mans site in China has public relation piece that says the 'tetherow' is the most exclusive place for rich-chinese to be treated like kings by white devil in USA. This is BIG shit, I have long predicted, that once the SHIT fell out of Bend, the Chinese would step in, and be the new owner(s).
****
http://usstock.jrj.com.cn/news/2007-11-27/000002976108.html
****
BEND, Ore., Nov. 26 /PRNewswire/ -- A 700-acre resort encompassing a luxury hotel/spa/restaurant, recreation center, conference center, David McLay Kidd-design golf course and 589 homes and townhomes is poised to offer the first luxury accommodations in Bend, central Oregon''s famed outdoor recreational playground. Tetherow will rise on the last of the city''s prized westside acreage, with sweeping views of the city and the Cascade Mountain.
Hotel Tetherow
Situated on a soaring lava ridge overlooking the golf course, Hotel Tetherow will offer 50 luxury rooms and suites in a main building that includes a full-service spa/wellness center and restaurant. The hotel can accommodate an additional 250 overnight guests in nearby lodge homes and cabins with more spacious rooms and private kitchens.
Tetherow Integrates Elegant Lodging, David Kidd Golf and Luxury Homesites Minutes from Downtown Bend
* http://www.jrj.com 2007年11月27日 02:53 PRNewswire
* 【字体:大 中 小】【页面调色版 】
BEND, Ore., Nov. 26 /PRNewswire/ -- A 700-acre resort encompassing a luxury hotel/spa/restaurant, recreation center, conference center, David McLay Kidd-design golf course and 589 homes and townhomes is poised to offer the first luxury accommodations in Bend, central Oregon''s famed outdoor recreational playground. Tetherow will rise on the last of the city''s prized westside acreage, with sweeping views of the city and the Cascade Mountain.
Hotel Tetherow
Situated on a soaring lava ridge overlooking the golf course, Hotel Tetherow will offer 50 luxury rooms and suites in a main building that includes a full-service spa/wellness center and restaurant. The hotel can accommodate an additional 250 overnight guests in nearby lodge homes and cabins with more spacious rooms and private kitchens.
Global hospitality company Dolce International will manage the facility, with a goal of achieving a four-star rating. Arrowood, Tetherow''s development company, chose Dolce as its hotel partner because of its proven ability to deliver a luxury hotel resort and spa experience with a strong local character. Arrowood partner Don Bauhofer said, "Hotel Tetherow will be unlike anything else offered in Bend -- a destination that will offer a unique experience for our guests and residents, as well as the community of Bend." A conference center adjacent to the hotel, recreation center and golf clubhouse will offer flexible meeting space for groups as large as 300.
Living at Tetherow
Ownership opportunities include homesites, lodge homes, cabins, townhomes and custom homes. The first phase of homesites became available in July, 2007, and more than 80 sites have already been reserved, with an estimated value of $42 million. All homeowners will have access to the amenities at Hotel Tetherow, the Golf Club and Recreation Center.
Tetherow Golf
Tetherow''s 18-hole private resort course, designed by famed Scottish golf architect David McLay Kidd, will open in June, 2008, with the clubhouse set for a fall, 2008 opening. Kidd recently completed the Castle Course at St. Andrews in Scotland. It is the first complete new course added to St. Andrews in the past 100 years, as well as the highly-regarded Bandon Dunes course on the coast of southern Oregon. Kidd recently purchased the first homesite at Tetherow and moved his world headquarters to Bend.
The private Tetherow Golf Club will offer both golf and social memberships for homeowners. Amenities planned for the 17,500-square-foot clubhouse include a pro shop, restaurant and lounge, meeting room and men''s and women''s locker rooms.
For more information, visit http://www.tetherow.com or call Brand Director Femke van Velzen, 541-390-2259, femke@thetherow.com.
Source: Tetherow
So if my house falls 50% off peak that means I'll have paid about 50K over what your calling the bottom of the market. Yawn. That's annoying but not greatly significant at my income level.
So if my house falls 50% off peak that means I'll have paid about 50K over what your calling the bottom of the market. Yawn. That's annoying but not greatly significant at my income level.
=============
I dont understand you paid 50K over.......which is 50% off peak, so does that mean you spent 100k? at peak? And then 50k is not much to you?
just confused. I do agree 50% will not kill the person that put a lot of money down or does not care about equity in there home and can easily make the payments. The problem is for most that payment is a stretch and when you are loosing money every month and there is no turn around ANYWHERE in sight the empact will be large. So yawn all you want, better hope your job is not tied to RE, retail or the local economy in anyway.
just confused:
-Peak listing on my house was about 450k
-I paid 275K
-If it falls 50% off peak then 225K
-So if it falls that low then I paid 50K more than this hypothetical bottom.
So if my beer head falls 50% off peak that means I'll have paid about $2 over what your calling the bottom of the glass. Yawn. That's annoying but not greatly significant at my income level.
Wow. A rich beer drinker, you are.
Grasshopper, riddle me this: If a Beer Drinker (BD) consumes 2 pints of of IPA, 3 pints of CinderCone, and 4 pints of BlackButte Porter, and falls down in the BrokenTop Gated Community (BTGC) without making a sound, does anybody here him fall?
The problem can be formula'd out thusly:
BD = [(2xIPA)+(3xCC)+(4xBBP)/BTGC] = 0.001?
Fuck you and your income level,you arrogant prick.
Home price drop largest on record: S&P
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Prices of existing U.S. single-family homes slumped 4.5 percent in the third quarter from a year earlier, matching a record decline from the previous period as the housing downturn deepened, according to a national home price index on Tuesday.
The S&P/Case-Shiller National Home Price Index fell 1.7 percent since June, marking the largest quarterly decline in the index's 21-year history, S&P said in a statement.
The composite month-over-month index of 20 metropolitan areas fell 0.9 percent to 195.62 in September from August, bringing the measure down 4.9 percent from a year earlier.
S&P said its older, composite month-over-month index of 10 metropolitan areas declined 0.9 percent in September to 212.65, for a 5.5 percent year-over-year drop.
Re: Bruce, comeon over to the Source...
I went over on the Friday before Thanksgiving, and spent about an hour with Editor Eric, talking JR and going over the agreement, showing him some of the icky stuff. I wanted to write a story, but he never got back to me, so I built juniper-ridge.info. I wanted it public. I still want it even more public.
I have to pick CCR's and some other interesting stuff today, so I'll be over then. Who should I talk to?
My last email to Eric:
How about I write a short spec piece, an overview of the story.
My feeling is this should be a multi-week piece, an expose
of sorts, about JR. Right back to the question of how did
a highly respected development firm, Trammel Crow, not
make the initial cut, and a two-person startup put together
specifically to bid on the project was chosen as the master
developer? Did Ray Kuratek really lead the development of
Bay Meadows? Was the Trammel Crow response the the
initial RFQ really so poor?
How did Les Shwab force a almost unnoticed 9 AM
Special Meeting of the City Council and give them one
hour to accept a blatantly one-sided contract? Which
was accepted on a 4/3 vote. Why are Bend taxpayers
already paying over $7 million in site improvements,
backed "...by the City's full faith & credit", when
the contract that is supposed to help pay for it
is not even public yet?
It's all coming to an inflection point by 12/31 because that
is the date by which Les Shwab has to give the City
a "Contingency Removal Notice" or the contract will
automatically terminate.
I'm not a professional writer, mostly tech manuals and stuff.
But I have written a bunch over the years, and have always
been told it's pretty good.
Besides, what are editors for :)
That's annoying but not greatly significant at my income level.
Renter alert! Renter alert!
Like Sally Heatherton, this here is a FAKE.
Make $5.50/hr + tips.
Put your apron on boy. They need help washing dishes.
Re: PR in China
Smartest thing they can do. The Chinese have our money, so why not sell them our land to get it back, before it goes totally bust. If they are smart, they will make them pay in yuan or euros.
You should go take a bike ride or drive through, from Skyliner to Century. It's a hell of a project, serious work going on. I'm thinking I might have to quit my part-time Widgi groundskeeping job and go over there, if it turns out as nice as they say it will. At least use my industry privileges to get a test round or two in ;)
Home prices falling everywhere: S&P
Down 4.5% nationally over past year, Case-Shiller says
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- U.S. home prices were falling in every region of the country in September, according to a closely watched index of home prices released Tuesday.
Home prices fell in September in all 20 major cities covered by the Case-Shiller price index, even in cities that had been holding up before the August freeze in mortgage markets, Standard & Poor's reported.
"There is no real positive news in today's data," said Robert Shiller, chief economist at MacroMarkets LLC, and the co-developer of the index.
For the national Case-Shiller home price index, prices fell 1.7% in the third quarter compared with the second quarter, and were down a record 4.5% in the past year. It was the largest quarter-to-quarter price decline in the 20 years covered by the index.
For the first time in this housing cycle prices in all 20 cities dropped from the previous month, with the biggest declines in the bubble cities of Miami, Phoenix, San Diego, Las Vegas, Los Angeles and Tampa.
For the 20 cities, prices fell a record 4.9% year-over-year. Meanwhile, prices were down 5.5% year-over-year in the original 10-city index, the largest drop in the 10-city index since 1991.
The last time prices fell so much, it took more than eight years for home prices to return to their peak level.
The Case-Shiller index, which tracks multiple sales of the same homes, is considered by many observers to be the best gauge of national and metropolitan-area real-estate values.
Falling prices make it more difficult for homeowners to tap the equity in their homes or refinance their mortgages. Millions of homeowners who took out adjustable-rate loans in 2005 and 2006 face sharply higher mortgage payments this year and next, with foreclosures having already soared as the result of payment resets.
"With supply overhang growing and mortgage financing tougher to obtain, home prices are going to soften considerably further in the quarters ahead," wrote Joshua Shapiro, chief economist for MFR.
Plunging home prices will also be felt on Wall Street, where banks and other money managers have leveraged untold billions in complex securities based on increasingly risky mortgages.
Boom goes bust
Former boom towns in Florida and Southern California have now passed Detroit for the dubious honor of having the largest declines in the past year. Prices are still up in the Pacific Northwest and in areas of the South, but they're rising at a slower pace.
Fifteen of the 20 cities tracked in the index have seen prices fall in the past year, led by Tampa, Fla., with an 11.1% decline, followed by Miami with a 10% loss and Detroit with a 9.3% loss. Indeed, eight of the 20 cities recorded their largest-ever year-over-year price declines in September.
On a year-over-year basis, prices were up in five cities, led by Seattle and Charlotte, N.C., with 4.7% increases. After adjusting for inflation of 3.7% in the past year, real prices were up in just two of 20 cities.
Here are the year-over-year nominal price changes for the 20 cities covered by the index:
Tampa, down 11.1%;
Miami, down 10%;
Detroit, down 9.6%:
San Diego, down 9.6%;
Las Vegas, down 9%;
Phoenix, Ariz., down 8.8%;
Los Angeles, down 7%;
Washington, D.C., down 6.6%;
San Francisco, down 4.6%;
Minneapolis, down 4.5%;
Cleveland, down 4%;
New York, down 3.6%;
Boston, down 3.2%;
Chicago, down 2.5%;
Denver, Colo., down 0.9%;
Dallas, up 0.2%;
Atlanta, up 0.4%;
Portland, Ore., up 2.2%;
Charlotte, up 4.7%;
Seattle, up 4.7%.
Rex Nutting is Washington bureau chief of MarketWatch.
I'm thinking I might have to quit my part-time Widgi grounds keeping job and go over there, if it turns out as nice as they say it will.
It's odd I never see you there, I golf at Widgi almost everyday until they closed, thats me walking around with a caddy picking up balls.
The rest of the winter I'm at Riversedge every AM with a 80,000 BTU propane backpack torch melting ice, as long as I don't burn the grass I'm good.
I'm not sure the Chinese want our service, my understanding they bring their own coolies. I'm planning on get young girls to flatback on their behalf in Bend. The chinese have a very strong desire to gamble and engage in prostitution. I think we can get Kahneeta to open a casino at Tetherow, and if we can get the city of Bend to legalize prostitution, or at least ensure that the chinese are protected from white trash disease, then we are good to go.
Once gambling and prostitution are in place, we can sell all the condos we want. The chinese like tenement flat style skyscraper condo's, so we'll be building up, no problem with a land shortage near Tetherow.
Re: Home price drop largest on record
IHTBB, when does the local data come out?
The graphs showing subprime default levels were scary. I wonder how many cities hold rotten commercial paper/slice-and-diced mortgage instruments in their short term reserves?
Who should I talk to?
H 'Bruce' Miller
aka HBM
Re: It's odd I never see you there, I golf at Widgi almost everyday until they closed.
I am the guy walking alone, usually around 4 or 4:30, blue bag swung across my shoulders. I worked from 5 AM to 9 AM or so, setting up. So unless you were real early, you wouldn't see me, except maybe riding my bike down the drive to go home.
How did Les Shwab force a almost unnoticed 9 AM
Special Meeting of the City Council and give them one
hour to accept a blatantly one-sided contract?
*
Bruce, first of ALL, Les-Schwab is the Sore's #1 advertiser, so you might get Switzer to nod and see his eyes roll-over, he's NOT going to piss in his own soup.
You best bet is to write as much as you can as often, and create your own blog this one, and call it something like makejuniperpublic.blogspot.com, and then MAKE HOMER place the site on his mast-head,... That way you can write weekly, and have follow up comments,
You must remember that the SORE and BULL are NOT going to go into the Les Schwab deal, because for both of them this is their #1 advertiser, Schwab is Oregon's biggest native biz, and Schwab was Oregon's richest man, and he was the god father of central oregon. The man to look into is judge scott cooper who is the executor of the schwab estate, and the board of central oregon real-estate.
Don't wait for homer or bem to write anything, they're cowards and afraid of Hollern & Schwab, they only do potty talk about weak women with too many condo's.
All that really needs to be done, is get ALL doc's public, and get the questions answered. Try and get an interview with Hummel or Anderson if you want some real insider dirt, my guess is one of these guys wants the real story to be told.
Bruce,
I had an interesting talk with an old city guy on sunday. He basically knew all we know, but his take was quite different. He was a Teater supporter ( previous bend mayor ), from his point of view, teater and all prior bend politicians were businessmen, that made smart choices, and didn't want to bankrupt bend. He thinks the current crop are business idiots, which is why all the stupid shit is happening, e.g. losing lawsuits, and costing the city tens of millions on incompetence.
My take is different, as ALL these people are about business, its just that now Bend is ran by the get-rich-quick easy-money RE crowd. Certainly the old Bend was ran by roll-up-sleeve businessmen, now its ran by PR&MARKETING businessmen, they're all businessmen.
It's more likes whats happening to all of the USA, we ship out the real jobs, and sell an abstract lifestyle. Bend is #1 in selling an abstract lifestyle, that never did exist even for those that lived here.
Chamber of Commerce and EDCO always wanted to keep things small, and simple; thus simple good-ol-boyz approach to business. The new crop of RE/Marketing that runs Bend thinks big, that's why they embraced the BIG-PLAN of Kuratek, this make Bend the #1 tourist resort which maybe a joke to us, is really the mantra with those running city-hall. Old timers know that the money isn't there. New folks say "Anything is possible", even the Sunday Bulletin by Costa was saying the dream should still be Maximum, that Bend had to think big.
So you had two different groups, Chamber of Commerce and EDCO controlling Garzini&Anderson, and all of the city commissioners wanting the BIG dream, thus two different paths, just like in the day when the rail-road tracks were built on both side of the river coming up from the columbia, the first won. In the case the first was selling JR to LS, its over, and the 'good ol boyz' won, kuratek is out!
Garzini would like to get rid of Kuratek on the cheap, but Kuratek is NOT stupid, and probably smarter than all the CUNT in Bend.
Today there is no money, we all know that, the State Univ system is dying, there will never be JR money for a UNIV, but the talk goes on. In the meantime 100's of Millions of taxpayers dollars are being spent on lawsuits and corporate welfare. Even the old city-hall insider I spent sunday with said that he didn't feel that the 350 jobs from LS was worth this deal, as its really a zero sum game, its not like anybody is going to move from where they're already at.
From my point of view, there is ONLY one thing that bothers me, and that is the secrecy. We MUST make everything public.
Bruce,
One other issue on the subject of nepotism. If I remember correctly Costa, the editor at the BULLetin ( past sunday ) that's so BIG on Kurateks BIG JR plan, his wife runs the DVA/VCB city PR&Marketing biz,
Thus you have some symbiosis with selling "bend" as the #1 resort and the BULL!
The SORE of course sponsors all our ENDLESS events ALL summer, which are also symbiotic with bring in tourists, and keeping them busy, and thinking about what a wonderful place Bend is-is.
Note its thought that Aaron Switzer ( SORE OWNER ), makes MORE money on city events all year, than he does on the SORE. Simply PUT, the SORE only exists to promote Switzers events.
Everything in Bend is a mirage, and everything is inter-related to sell the lifestyle.
The WHOLE sales of JR to LS, was simply about a lifestyle for Borgman to shorten his commute from Awbrey.
Today we're marketing the Bend Lifestyle to the Chinese, but remember Bend, you better have a lot of prostitution and gambling to keep these tourists happy, Switzer's events, and the BULL's crap, will not make this place 'sticky' for the Chinese.
Re: From my point of view, there is ONLY one thing that bothers me, and that is the secrecy. We MUST make everything public.
That and rushing headlong into $12+ million in debt backed by the cities' "full faith and credit" at this particular point in the economic cycle.
It starts to bug you when you see them call a very broad Executive Session and go behind closed doors to discuss anything JR, and then come out, say a few platitudes and concerns, and promptly pass whatever staff cooked up.
You know, when I was at the last Council meeting, they talked about a overpass and new development on the south end of town, taking out some stoplights on the parkway and adding a big grocery store and other development south of Pinebrook. To me, that makes some sense, as its already close to a lot of traffic. Spending tens of millions trying to force a fantastic dream out in the boonies, especially when you start with a secret, bad deal like the LS agreement, is lunacy right now.
Homer, this one is for YOU. Note here this outfit spent $500k on due-diligence on looking at Columbia for the PDX auction. They like what they saw so much, that they announced that wanted to exit BEND ASAP, and that they were going to write off the $500k. Some be some nasty shit if one does 'due diligence'.
****
November 27, 2007 03:57 PM Eastern Time
Park Electrochemical Corp. Announces Its Discontinuation of Bidding for Columbia Aircraft Manufacturing Corporation
MELVILLE, N.Y.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Park Electrochemical Corp. (NYSE-PKE) announced that it had discontinued its participation in the bidding for certain of the assets and business of Columbia Aircraft Manufacturing Corporation (“Columbia”) in an auction conducted in the United States Bankruptcy Court for the District of Oregon in Portland, Oregon on November 27, 2007.
Park had submitted an initial bid for certain of the assets and business of Columbia on November 20, 2007 after conducting extensive due diligence at Columbia in Bend, Oregon and elsewhere. Park participated in the auction in the Bankruptcy Court in Portland on November 27, 2007 but chose to discontinue its participation in the auction bidding process. Park has incurred approximately $500,000 in out-of-pocket expenses relating to its due diligence efforts, all of which will be expensed in Park’s third quarter ended November 25, 2007.
Brian Shore, Park’s President and CEO, said, “We would like to thank the employees of Columbia Aircraft Manufacturing for all of their help and assistance relating to our due diligence efforts. We wish the employees the best of luck in the future. In our opinion, the business will be in good hands with its new owner. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank Lance Neibauer, the very talented designer of the Columbia aircraft models, for his help in connection with our due diligence efforts.”
Park Electrochemical Corp. is a global advanced materials company which develops and manufactures high-technology digital and RF/microwave printed circuit materials (the Nelco® product line) and advanced composite materials (the Nelcote™ product line) principally for the telecommunications and internet infrastructure, high-end computing and aerospace markets. Park focuses on the general aviation segment of the aerospace market. Park’s core capabilities are in the areas of polymer chemistry formulation and coating technology. The Company’s manufacturing facilities are located in Singapore, China, France, Connecticut, New York, Arizona and California. In addition, the Company is in the process of constructing a new development and manufacturing facility in Newton, Kansas.
IHTBB, when does the local data come out?
Well, it straggles in for almost 2 wks after the end of the month. Generally Doug Farmer is first, between the 3rd & 5th, David Foster is out about 1-2 wks, and GoBend I haven't kept good track of, but they seem to come out later, but have more data. GoBend seems to be the only place you can get month to month median & avg data with any reliability at all. David Foster does it, but he is cumulative from the start of the year.
Homer, this one is for YOU. Note here this outfit spent $500k on due-diligence on looking at Columbia for the PDX auction. They like what they saw so much, that they announced that wanted to exit BEND ASAP, and that they were going to write off the $500k. Some be some nasty shit if one does 'due diligence'.
That is pretty good.
"We'd rather lose $500K than really get whacked."
If Cessna get's Columbia, they will either get the Deal of the Century on rent, or they will abandon Bend in a heartbeat.
Of course with Park leaving, I'm sure the price was also just cut in half, at least.
FYI--picked up LS CCRs today. I'll try to get them up tomorrow. Probably nothing fancy right away other than the front page and a link to the PDF of the rest.
I'm trying to build this site into a combo wiki/blog, with a timeline slider, oldest stuff at bottom/new at top, ready for additions, and with links to all the docs, both on the City site, on my own server, and elsewhere, like Edco. Been educating myself in Ajax powered by Ruby on Rails, and installing everything on my server in my spare time, which is taking fucking forever.
But I have a vision...
Didn't some guy named Kuratek once say that?
But I have a vision...
Didn't some guy named Kuratek once say that?
*
Think BIG, and remember in Bend, only those with small dicks think small.
Plan big, augment big, and drive a big car. In Bend, small is for losers.
You need to also have a blog-site for health-care, Bend health-care is a fascinating subject.
City Council/meeting watch, ...
Are you trying to tie everything off of juniper-ridge.info ??
I think it would be better for you to have separate subject related blogs, and then just use blogsite such as this forum for minimal fucking effort, unless you want to learn ajax, perl, ...
Tribune Revenue Hit by Real Estate Slump
CHICAGO (AP) - Tribune Co., the nation's second-largest newspaper publisher, said Tuesday its October revenue fell 9.3 percent as classified ad sales continued to suffer from real estate declines.
The company, whose properties include the Chicago Tribune, the Los Angeles Times and nine other dailies along with 23 TV stations, said consolidated revenue for the period ended Oct. 28 slipped to $383 million from $422 million a year ago.
The monthly results confirm a continuation of the industry tailspin that sent Tribune's third-quarter revenue down 4 percent and earnings down 7 percent from the same period in 2006 as the housing slump and lower consumer spending hammer advertising revenue.
Circulation revenue fell more than 6 percent because of declines in single-copy sales and discounts for home delivery, the Tribune said.
Shares in the company fell $1.35, or 4.7 percent, to $27.25 Tuesday.
Publishing revenue in October dropped 7.9 percent to $287 million, with ad revenue sliding 10.6 percent to $222 million.
National ad sales dipped 2.3 percent with softness in auto, transportation and technology categories partially offset by an increase in the movie category.
Classified ad sales slumped 19.2 percent, as real estate tumbled 26.9 percent on significant dropoffs in Los Angeles, Chicago and Florida. Help wanted ad revenue declined 21.7 percent and automotive fell 4.9 percent. Interactive sales were a bright spot, rising 11.4 percent to $22 million.
Retail advertising sales slid 7.8 percent as declines in department stores, amusements and electronic categories were partially offset by a rise in the health care category.
Broadcasting and entertainment revenue slipped 13.3 percent to $96 million on declines in television group revenue and Chicago Cubs revenue. Television revenue fell 7.1 percent on dropoffs in political, movies and retail, partially offset by strength in food/packaged goods, telecom and restaurant/fast food categories.
If Cessna get's Columbia, they will either get the Deal of the Century on rent, or they will abandon Bend in a heartbeat
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Well its all out there, Textron got Columbia, but lets make it clear, as is now on the industrial rags, the ONLY reason they did this is Cessna Sales Offices needed a niche carrot to give to their sales-force in order to retain them, as they didn't have a composite craft of this type. Thus this is a short term operation. It really depends if the sales force run with this thing, now that they have it, given that the economy is imploding, .e.g. the days of easy money for personal flying machines that cost $500k is over for long time,
If I were in this biz, I would be buildling in India, and selling to Chinese/Indian entrepreneurs. There's NO fucking way, long term this shit is staying in Bend.
Get over it!
Cunts, lets also NOT forget this year that Knife-River ( LS driveway ) got $20M for the Bend Airport.
You know the total loss of all this experimental development has got to have someone scratching their ass.
That said, I'm sure the folks running Bend, thought that their airport would be bigger than Redmond if they just talked big, borrowed big, spent big, and marketed big.
Build and they'll come, loan and they'll borrow, Spend and everyone will get rich.
Welcome to Bend.
In global precedent, Google to hand over blogger's IP address
An anonymous blogger using Google Blogger slandered Shaarei Tikva councilmen.
Noam Sharvit 27 Nov 07 13:22
In an unprecedented move, Google Inc. (Nasdaq:GOOG) has agreed to supply the IP address of an Israeli blogger who used "Google Blogger" for a blog in which he slandered Shaarei Tikva council members running for reelection. The election is being held today. So far as is known, this is the first time that Google forewent legal action in such a case.
The slandered Shaarei Tikva council members asked Google for the blogger's name. They reached a settlement with the company on the basis of an Israeli ruling on the subject. The settlement stipulates that 72 hours before a hearing on the case at the Rishon LeZion Magistrates Court, the council members would leave the blogger a message on his blog summoning him to the hearing, or else his IP address would be handed over. The notice would invite the blogger to disclose his identity, participate in the hearing, or oppose the disclosure of his identity by filing a motion as "anonymous".
In an unprecedented move, Google Inc. (Nasdaq:GOOG) has agreed to supply the IP address of an Israeli blogger who used "Google Blogger" for a blog in which he slandered Shaarei Tikva council members running for reelection. The election is being held today. So far as is known, this is the first time that Google forewent legal action in such a case.
The slandered Shaarei Tikva council members asked Google for the blogger's name. They reached a settlement with the company on the basis of an Israeli ruling on the subject. The settlement stipulates that 72 hours before a hearing on the case at the Rishon LeZion Magistrates Court, the council members would leave the blogger a message on his blog summoning him to the hearing, or else his IP address would be handed over. The notice would invite the blogger to disclose his identity, participate in the hearing, or oppose the disclosure of his identity by filing a motion as "anonymous".
For more than a year, the anonymous blogger slandered three Shaarei Tikva councilmen: local council chairman Gideon Idan, Shaarei Tikva director general Haim Blumenfeld and council member Avi Yokobovich. The blogger accused the men of criminal acts, such as pretending to be handicapped in order to receive discounts on local property taxes, receiving bribes from a contractor, and having ties to criminal gangs.
The three councilmen filed a NIS 300,000 lawsuit against the blogger, who was named "anonymous" in the statement of claim. They also asked for a court order ordering Google to disclose the blogger's IP address, which would enable the court to contact the blogger's Internet services provider and order it to disclose the blogger's identity.
Google initially said that disclosing the blogger's identity violated rulings on the balance between freedom of expression and a person's right to his reputation.
However, in a pre-ruling, Judge Oren Schwartz said that the blog's content raised suspicions of criminal conduct, and Google took the hint. Judge Schwartz applied the strict position of Tel Aviv District Court Judge Michal Agmon that the details of a surfer may be disclosed only if the slander was tantamount to criminal defamation.
Following Judge Schwartz's ruling, Google and the councilmen reached a settlement in their dispute.
Of course, Israel is a hate-fueled police state, and I wonder if the same BS would fly here. Are we a hate-fueled police state yet?
Surrounded by our enemies? CHECK!
Litigation driven society? CHECK!
"Tolerance" via extreme INTOLERANCE? CHECK!
Maybe the US Justice System WILL squeeze IP info from Google & others. That'll be the day poor old Paul-doh shuts down this blog & moves to Canada... or maybe just a more tolerant government regime, like China.
Classified ad sales slumped 19.2 percent, as real estate tumbled 26.9 percent on significant drop-offs in Los Angeles, Chicago and Florida
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I predicted over a year ago, that the BULL would be laying people off by xmas, looks like I might be correct.
This is Bend, you know the RE advertising drop must be horrendous.
I know that the Oregonian and BULL these days are completely fucking worthless compared to craigs-list.
Cessna Sales Offices needed a niche carrot to give to their sales-force in order to retain them
And if you pay close attention, you can tell Cessna is going the "Larry Craig" approach: they use the word "PLANNING" in EVERY SINGLE statement.
Cessna is PLANNING on keeping Columbia in Bend...
Cessna is PLANNING on no layoffs...
They're planning a whole shitload of enjoyable shit. But that is SOP when you want to hang employees out to dry. Shit, Columbia was PLANNING on not going bust, they were planning on the layoffs not being permanent. People PLAN all sorts of crap that don't happen.
Maybe the US Justice System WILL squeeze IP info from Google & others. That'll be the day poor old Paul-doh shuts down this blog & moves to Canada.
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Just go public like Duncan. Sure you have to be Ned Flanders 24/7, but then you don't have to hide like a rat.
I agree Israel is no comparison, and ALL their politicians are criminal sleaze and their courts. Google didn't want to fuck with them, just like Yahoo didn't want to fuck with the Chinese.
I'm waiting now to see the 'liberal' press scream, and that Google be dragged before congress for turning over this poor shit to the Israeli Government. Their idea of criminal is anyone that isn't Kosher 24/7.
There is NO fucking privacy on the computer and NEVER has been. Never say or do anything, or advocate anything you wouldn't say in a court room, because ALL is being permanently recorded.
These days at borders going both directions, the first thing they do is google you, so dear homer, I seriously doubt that once you were public that Canada would let you in, and certainly the US wouldn't let you back.
Cessna is PLANNING on keeping Columbia in Bend...
Cessna is PLANNING on no layoffs..
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You must be quoting BULL, please provide source, I personally ONLY read aviation source on this issue.
Normal BULL is someone 'might' do this, or 'may' do that, sounds like the BULL is now saying someone 'might be planning'.
Textron bought this for ONE reason, because the sales-force wouldn't a competitive composite product on their floor. US sales of person-aircraft have been reaching zero growth for years. The future is Asia.
'cessna' is planning no layoffs, but I can guarantee that Textron is going to be laying off lots of people. They 'might' even keep a sales office in Bend? With ALL the golfers coming in&out of tetherow&pronghorn it would probably not be a bad idea to have a rich-mans aviation retail-shop here.
The future of aviation is Asia, and if you want to sell there, you must build there.
Interesting chunk from BendBB:
BendBB: Here's a table showing the percentage of new listings since July 2007 that are assumed to be lots.
Code:
Month % lots
July 24%
August 19%
September 21%
October 29%
November 40%
Tim: Any speculation as to why?
BendBB: Your guess is as good as mine. Some of the planned subdivisions aren't feasible in today's economic climate so perhaps some of the developers are opting to sell now to stimulate cash flow rather than make loan payments for an extended period of time while waiting for housing sales to pick up again. Of course if too many developers try to sell high-priced lots at the same time that'll create a glut on the market and few will sell -- unless they lower the prices.
Maybe I'm missing something, but lot sales are largely from builders & developers getting desperate. NWX going "freestyle" & the like. Lots as a % of all new listings is a good proxy for HOW DESPERATE THE LOCAL SITUATION IS.
And it looks like the desperation doubled in the past 2 months.
I am starting to hear "background chatter" about people who bought on the way up... just 1 HOUSE, and now they cannot rent it, so they are trying like hell to sell. But they can't lower the price either, cuz they are right at the short sale level, any lower & they have to come up with money at close that they simply do not have; no CC's to borrow on anymore (tapped out), no home equity, no nut'n. They are working like crazy to simply make 2 mortgage payments, and every month they KNOW that all the money put into the second home is simply being flushed. So their $17/hr job really nets them about $2/hr, cuz almost everything goes into paying MTG payments. They can barely miss 1/2 day or work or they'll go into foreclosure.
I know BendBuster's been saying this for awhile... but I had never actually heard REAL cases about this exact situation until recently.
It's pretty damn sad.
Homer,
Here's another take on Colubmia, and I'm sure its why PARK bailed, ...
To date they had sold $250M worth of planes, Textron bought BK columbia for $24M, thus they paid 10% of the sales out there, they'll continue service, my guess is that 25% of the planes probably need service, parts continually, thus they're buying a service market. Sales domestically have plummeted, thus service is the future.
Here's the fucking point from the above analysis, its a fucking PARTS and SERVICE business that Textron bought, nothing really needs to be manufactured. If I were them, I would export the composite technology to Asia ASAP, or better yet sell it to that India guy with big hair for $25M, and keep the Parts and Service biz here, and buy planes back from India at a discount!
Textron's Cessna Aircraft Company to Acquire Assets of Columbia Aircraft
"We plan to make significant investments in Bend, in people and operations, to bolster customer satisfaction and business profitability. We will continue to improve quality, reliability and performance as we strive to deliver customer value and fulfill our commitments," Pelton said.
Month % lots
July 24%
August 19%
September 21%
October 29%
November 40%
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In april of this year they shut down speculative loans for single-family and condo. Besides why build a home, when nobody will buy it, sell a lot to another sucker ( builder ).
Ok, now here is the lot problem, its a classical FUCK, because a bank will not BUY a lot, you must pay CASH for a lot, and then you go to the bank, and if your going to LIVE in the house, then we call that a custom, and its 30%, the value of that land is the banks collateral, and you had better hope that the house cost is about $300k and no higher.
The theory here is now about $150k, for instance Hollern is now selling $150k lots @ NWXC with virtually NO limits, but he needs cash, and he owns the lots.
I don't think that many have the cash, and WHY build today, when you can get a new house for nothing in Bend.
Yesterdays WSJ had a story about what a great time it is to BUILD, but you MUST have cash, supply's are down 30%, yes great time to build, but in Bend mcMansions are already down 30-50%, so why build in Bend?
There's is NO way you can get bank loans for land, how many actually have the cash, and are stupid enough to build a home in Bend?? The land of home glut, ya another fucking home.
Remember Bend is ONLY about flipping, NOBODY intends to stay here, thats why everyone is trying to bankrupt the city.
My guess is that HOLLERN is hurting real bad, both on LOTS and on completed spec-housing.
Remember these lots are already down -50% from the high, you couldn't get a lot in Bend for under $300k ( I'm talking inner west-side you eastside CUNT ).
I have to admit, because I can be completely honest here with you cunts, when those NWXC start selling for $50k, I'll buy some as a long term investment! Why? Because unlike homes, the land close-in, will not rot and turn to seed.
I wouldn't buy east-side lots even with homers money.
What's a lot worth? Given that our 4X income is $160k, and given that in Bend the land can be worth 1/2, I can say that a lot can be worth under $80k, but you better be willing to wait 10+ years to get back 100% appreciation.
Another perspective since I'm on the subject, and in this sense too bad that lots aren't available much anymore outside NWXC or equiv, ... what I'm getting too, is folks are REALLY sick of fucking HOLLERN CC&R's, and HOA's, in the future land that is NOT subject to HOA & CCR will be MORE fucking valuable, just my fucking opinion.
FUCK HOLLERNVILLE. Rhymes with Hoover-Ville.
Re: I think it would be better...
Yeah, I want to learn AJAX, etc. A blog is only part of it. Timelines, links to local and external docs, maps linked to pics, etc.
Re: Never say or do anything, or advocate anything you wouldn't say in a courtroom...
Truer words were never spoken.
See DOJ attempts subpoena for list of 24,000 Amazon customers
Want to get a real scare, read this article I wrote on the secret sniffer machines installed in the telco's (and remember this generation of sniffers is probably a generation behind todays): All About NSA's and AT&T's Big Brother Machine, the Narus 6400
An excerpt:
"How powerful is this? OC-192 carries about 10 gigabits of data per second. Ten billion bits per second, monitored in real-time. That is stunning. This is one damned powerful machine, one of the most powerful I've ever heard of in 25 years in IT.
And what does it monitor while looking at this 10 billion bits of IP data per second? First lets take a look at what the network model is, the OSI model of seven layers. NarusInsight focuses on two layers: number four, the transport layer, built on standards like TCP and UDP, the physical building blocks of internet data traffic, and number seven, the application layer, built on standards like HTTP and FTP, which are dependent on the application using them, i.e. Internet Explorer, Kazaa, Skype, etc. It monitors 10 billion bits per second at level four and 2500 million bits per second at level seven. For reference, the 256K DSL line I am using equals .25 million bits per second. So one NarusInsight machine can look at about 39,000 DSL lines at once in great detail. That is a pretty damn big number. This is some really serious hardware with equally serious software. Which is our next subject."
You just think you're anonymous, even behind a .ru proxy.
I've been through one of these business sales, and rarely are there not some sort of skeleton in the closet that just bites buyers in the ass.
I was involved in one where part of the purchase price was determined by the retention rate of customers over the first 90 days. After 60 days, over 75% of the customers had been lost to competitor pilfering. 75% of the incoming employees were also gone in 60 days. Ultimately the acquirer was liquidated.
I'm just saying that Columbia will not continue AS IS. It lost MILLIONS in the first 10 months of 2006. Cessna will have to perform a LOBOTOMY to rationalize this thing. Manufacturing in Central Oregon is just not going to be feasible for many moons....
Maybe I'm missing something, but lot sales are largely from builders & developers getting desperate. NWX going "freestyle" & the like. Lots as a % of all new listings is a good proxy for HOW DESPERATE THE LOCAL SITUATION IS.
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Home's don't sell because 90% of buyers NO longer qualify.
Lot's are a good game, because if they sell, its a cash game, and no risk of bank turn-down.
If you don't have the cash, you don't buy the lot.
This ALL goes back to Bend MARKETING & PR ( DVA/VCB ), bend spends millions of taxpayer money on PR, to get them to come and buy in Bend.
Now the gig is to get calis to come and buy lots with cash, with the idea of coming back to retire in 5-10 years to build the dream home.
The developers have NO other choice, the banks are no longer loaning, go after the few folks with cash. Soon the cash will be gone.
Look at todays WSJ, the reason citi sold to DUBAI is because they have no cash, ALL banks are out of cash, and the run's on the banks are bringing us very close to a bank holiday.
Manufacturing in Central Oregon is just not going to be feasible for many moons....
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In 2030 the FED's are going to run a freeway from RENO to MADRAS along the I97 cooridor.
It be that many moons.
We are coming up on our first CUT IN HALF! This home, in Mtn River Estates, started life as a nice $1.475MM macro-shack, but after SEVEN price cuts totalling 42.7%, this baby still ain't selling.
At $255/sf, I ~think~ it's below the citywide median. Which is pretty damn amazing, cuz you can see this badboy is pretty freakin sweet. And brand spankin new. Problem is, there are HUNDREDS of these overly large & ornate "TUSCAN" mega-shacks ALL OVER BEND.
You just think you're anonymous, even behind a .ru proxy.
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Ok, but they're look for keywords like 'b*mb', ...
Remember we talk about cunts, sodomy, and real-estate, don't get worked up.
I remember a few years ago LANL had a system that monitored the internet for the NSA/CIA that looked at people that wrote about nuclear-weapons, and flagged only those that knew what they were talking about. I'm a physicist by education. I used to work on this stuff back in the 1960's, so I still follow the cloak&dagger aspects of the biz.
Ya, nothing new here, NSA has been recording ALL domestic/international comm in all forms forever. BUT soo fucking what? They're not looking for sodomists, and cunts who are obsessed with real-estate.
WRT to the Israel issue, 99% of what we discuss is 100% derived from open public source. The 1% of 'real' rumors we get here, it pretty FUCKING sparse.
Yes, they're listening, and the more we talk about sodomy the more likely they'll be listening and whacking off, so lets make their day!
With regards to city-hall, they got bigger problems than bloggers. These folks are going to all have to get real jobs someday at Walmart, Costco, or Lowes, ... Kmart, ...
Look at todays WSJ, the reason citi sold to DUBAI is because they have no cash, ALL banks are out of cash, and the run's on the banks are bringing us very close to a bank holiday.
Arabs are trying to copycat the largest wealth making blueprint the area has ever seen, in the Prince Alwahleed purchase of Citigroup shares back during the 90's crisis. With $100 oil, there's PLENTY there who can do it. Our banking & lending infrastructure will soon be run by ISLAM.
Problem is, there are HUNDREDS of these overly large & ornate mega-shacks ALL OVER BEND.
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Not to bore you homer, but in the GREAT depression the BIG shit went down 90%, its the burn-rate on the big stuff, when cash is dear. Nobody wants the BURN.
Note, also EVERYTHING in NEW in Bend is BIG, which means everything in NEW in Bend is going down REAL low.
Pretty soon folks will be looking at little 800 sq-ft homes and licking their chops.
Houses are like boats, when they double in foot-print, then go to the cube in volume, and heating is by volume. When you go from 800sft ( 6400 cuft ), to 3,000 ( 30,000 cuft ), to 10k sqft ( 200k cuft ) the volume on these BIG homes is incredible, and heat the water laden air in these volumes requires a kings ransom, and in Bend all the kings are fucking broke.
Note, above I'm assuming the ceiling on the 800 is 8', 3k is 10', and 20' for 10k, all the folks I know that have +5K mcMansions in gated Comm's have these 20' ceilings.
So our BIG bastard with his 10K mcmansion, which isn't that uncommon in todays Bend, might be spend 33 times as much on heat as our little hobbit in his 800 sq-ft.
Guess who will survive the Bend RE depression??
8th month of consecutive decline, only 60 more months to go,
***
NEWS ALERT
from The Wall Street Journal
Nov. 28, 2007
Existing-home sales fell 1.2% in October, the eighth consecutive monthly decline, the National Association of Realtors said. The NAR cited "the lingering impact of the credit crunch" for the decline. The median home price was $207,800 last month, down 5.1% from $218,900 a year earlier.
Our banking & lending infrastructure will soon be run by ISLAM.
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Everyone said that years ago, when the japs were buying hawaii, and NYC, ...
Then guess what the japs, were the greatest fools.
In spite of the millions of dollars the city spends on selling Bend RE to chinese, I don't think they're that dumb. We had better have the gambling and cheap white pussy here in Bend, if you want to attract Chinese 'investment'.
Arab's have NO fucking choice, they know the dollar is worthless, so might as well make some money, besides, 11%/yr, and a two year option to purchase the stock at $30/share. Many are calling this bank-robbery.
Cessna/Textron to manufacture their new 162 in China.....I can only bet that Columbias will be next.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119621169217505989.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Proposed CCRs are up. Will not be finalized and recorded until after any purchase. The map exhibit is not totally complete; I'll get around to rescanning that portion soon.
One thing I noticed in the Juniper Cost Detail (click on the "$12 million and counting link") is that the city is paying LS SDC's, to the tune of $475K. Meaning LS must be paying $7/sq ft, coming out to 524610 sq ft*$7= $3,672,270.
524,610 sq ft is the size of the first 12 acres as shown on the CCRs map.
Yet the excpected land sale proceeds are listed as between $3M and $3.2 million, depending on where you look.
Don't really know what to think about that contradiction.
One thing I noticed in the Juniper Cost Detail (click on the "$12 million and counting link") is that the city is paying LS SDC's, to the tune of $475K.
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The thing I would look at is this cost, the breakdown for the $12M, doesn't show anything but the drive-way ( knife-river ), and a few conduit boxes, ...
The ls-agreement says that everything is to be 'shovel-ready', they define that as meaning that LS only pays for the 'building', asphalt paving in parking lot, and landscaping.
This means that city is paying for Mt-Borgman, and ALL excavation, yet this shows up NO where on the budget.
My guess is that its all keep sending in bills as they accumulate, which is why the total expense the city must pay seems to be going up $1M/month.
The LS-Agreement also says that any cost that LS spends outside of building,paving, and landscaping must be billed to the city ASAP, ... where are those bills, and where are they being itemized, certainly its all happening right now as 'shovel-ready' is supposed be done in the next few months.
Regards $3.1M, ... or whatever nobody knows, as every month that LS doesn't start 'building', means they pay less, they may end up paying nothing, who knows?
What we do know is the severance to LS for the city is $100k, but hell they have already spent $12M or MORE to date, ....
Proposed CCRs are up.
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Anything interesting?
What we're looking for is how it effects neighbors, and how much weaker it is than the original Juniper-Ridge guidelines.
Remember that LS said they did this to cover their ass, as the LS-agreement said they were exempt form JR CC&R's, and therefore they had to simply have 'something' in place, even city council concurred they could and would be weaker.
In my mind what we're looking for is more stupid lawyer shit like, "If you have to lie, say its a mortgage appraisal document".
or
"If anyone asks, deny the existence of this document".
Given the CC&R was done in April 07, and that the LS-Agree from Dec 06 was assumed to be a done-deal, they got so much parsing, I suspect the CC&R is a real cover your ass, document, and MOST likely NOT even written by the person who wrote the LS-agreement.
We can only hope they wrote stupid shit, for blogger fodder.
Cessna/Textron to manufacture their new 162 in China.....I can only bet that Columbias will be next.
*
Like the industry says, having a composite aircraft at Cessna's dealerships is a 'gift' to the sales-force, because its a checklist item for competition comparison.
If more than a dozen orders a year are seen, hell move it to China, if less than a dozen a year, make them in Bend for a few years, while attrition is taking place.
It really comes down to, ... will the asians and indians order them? They want fast jets don't they?
Those new personal jets by honda are really cool, that's what I would get. If I were an Indian with big hair.
What a sad state!
Honestly, how do the people of Bend keep from killing each other?
About a month ago I read a comment on Bend CL Rants & Raves where someone asked, "Why are people here so angry these days?"
Now I know why — you've got rednecks in overpriced mansions they can't afford, middle class choking in cookie cutters, and poor people in the leftover cracker boxes. I'd be one round-about away from a drive-by myself if I lived there. It's a ghetto!
No article in Outside magazine will save you now — even a cover story on how Bend is paradise on Earth. Actually a different kind of cover story would be more appropriate entitled “Sold Down the River.”
I miss the 60s when my dad worked at the ol' mill and we'd hike for hours around there seeing NO ONE!
Keep writing — this is the most whip-smart, entertaining sight on the Internet — ever!!
Making progress on Google: page 5 in a "juniper ridge, bend, or" search, page 2 in a "juniper ridge les schwab" search.
Anyone have time to really look at the CCRs. For those who don't know yet, see juniper-ridge.info
Re: Honestly, how do the people of Bend keep from killing each other?
Mostly by keeping my wife happy, enjoying getting outside, and having a blast teaching kids to read, write and count.
If you don't have big mortgage, it's really pretty good around here. Definitely been a decrease in aggressive giant pickups crowding me the last six months.
"The four most expensive words in the English language are, 'This time it's different.'"
-- Sir John Templeton
*
Must have been Bend, Oregon that Templeton was talking about.
I think for Bend it's
"Bend only goes up 30%/yr always has, and always will" - Every fucking realtor in Bend 2005
"Bend Real Estate Only goes Up" - Every fucking realtor in Bend 2002++
"Build and they will CUM" - Bend City Council 2004
Making progress on Google: page 5 in a "juniper ridge, bend, or" search, page 2 in a "juniper ridge les schwab" search.
*
I have been adding the URL everywhere ( juniper-ridge.info ) for weeks, usenet, all media sites, I would not be surprised if it becomes one of the main sites, too bad you don't have comments enabled, that's why you need to have a regular blog also, like "stopbendsecrecy.blogspot.com', ...
You also need to have "bendhealthcare.blogspot.com", lots of dirt in bend in the health care biz,
Keep writing — this is the most whip-smart, entertaining sight on the Internet — ever!! - homer
*
Yes, Homer you are very clever.
You obviously don't know about pussy.org.
Making progress on Google: page 5 in a "juniper ridge, bend, or" search, page 2 in a "juniper ridge les schwab" search.
*
Clicking on a photo of text to get text is a fucking pain in the ass.
Then you get the PDF and some are shrunk and some not, do you realize MOST fucking users don't know how to use ZOOM?
Bruce, WHO the fuck taught you website design, you might be able to learn ajax, but first think about the fucking USER,
KEEP THINGS SIMPLE STUPID
Have lots of pictures, people like pictures show them where their $12M ++ is going, ...
Enable fucking comments, or put your shit on a blog-site.
RE: Bruce, WHO the fuck taught you website design...
Ah, myself, about 15 years ago. Put the first live webcam up in Alta, Utah.
So fucking eat me.
Want to do it better--every fucking doc I have is downloadable very easily. Hello!
Blow yourself. Probably the best whiskey you will get...
Sorry to be rude, but I just threw it fucking up there.
You are welcome to put in a records request or two yourself.
Otherwise, do something useful other than whining.
Re: Clicking on a photo of text to get text is a fucking pain in the ass.
How stupid are you? It's a contract. You don't talk in sign language.
Damn, bruce done to' up some uh bendbust ass. Teach dat nigga a thing oh two.
Sorry, been a bit testy lately.
Help, if you guys would, too. It's not really that hard.
Sorry to be rude, but I just threw it fucking up there.
*
Yes, we know that.
You seem to want to promote yourself, your site, and get donations. My 'humble' fucking suggestions.
Keep it simple stupid. Add some fucking pictures, add a comment feature, make it sticky.
"I just threw it fucking up there."
Yes, we know.
"You cannot make another post so soon after your last; please try again in a short while."
BendBB just told me that.
Sorry, my wife is calling me to bed.
My post:"I'm with Paul-Doh. $250-$270K medians are coming soon. It's expensive to maintain an empty McMansion, like the 50 or so I see around me."
"A little rant about the 'work' we do"
Homer, Probably spends 2-4 hours every sunday on his blog, and doesn't ask for nickels, probably knows that they wouldn't add up to a beer.
Someone here long ago suggested he add the google-ads, but we all begged he not commercialize this cunt-haven, after all homer might start spending all his time counting nickels.
Now there's bruce, I never laughed my ass off so hard as when Bruce first arrived and said "I'm going to put the flashlight on Bend, and people will thank me for it".
No Bruce it doesn't work the way, I have been around Oregon politics for years and years, and most the people you knew simply die, and most go on with their lives, but very few care that you invested your time in this kind of shit. Nobody fucking cares.
Then there is the kind of Mencken rabble-rousing we do here, in town like Bend, where 95% would put their own children into prostitution if could help them flip homes, Bend doesn't want to hear the truth.
All you can really do repeat, and repeat the facts and some will get it, like the fact that Bend RE is no longer going up, its only now that is sinking in, but its been happening for over a year.
Oregon politics has always been fucked, and politicians and their owners have always been raiding the city kitty. The people who bring the bad news HAVE NEVER been fucking congratulated.
It's the old story of human nature, the bearer of bad news, has always been the first to die.
Keep up the work, but remember your doing it for yourself. Bend was FUCKED before you got here, and Bend will be fucked long after your dead. The misconception that a person can make a difference in a fucking kleptocracy like Bend is just a fucking myth.
If you believe the myth, then fine, I just felt it was essential to share some essential truth about Bend.
Re: Yes, we know.
So why don't you file a bunch of open record requests, scan 70 or 80pages, and build your own web site?
It's not that hard.
BendBubble1 has pictures. What more do you want pictures of?
Re: If you believe the myth, then fine, I just felt it was essential to share some essential truth about Bend.
Why do you still live here?
You know you assholes, aka a lot of BS about how YOU would do it? I don't fucking care.
I'll just keep doing it my way. When you actually show me some leadership, actually do something using your own fucking name, I'll just fucking say "Good work, mate".
Otherwise, what's with the fucking whine?
Re: Then you get the PDF and some are shrunk and some not, do you realize MOST fucking users don't know how to use ZOOM?
Hey, they all looked good to me. I just output them from Acrobat 8. If you notice an issue, tell me exactly what it is.
Or even better, fix it and send it to me. I'll use it.
You know, cunts, I'm the one standing in person in the City Office politely requesting the results of my record requests.
You can't even show your names online.
And you bitch and whine.
It's fucking pathetic.
No wonder Bend is in the shape it is.
one thing is sure is that bendbust will never shut up. too bad there is no ignore button
honestly the best thing that could happen is that this whole entire rancid blog would just die. how many times do we read the same crap over and over again here. i will try to take my own advice and stay away now.
Free $75 Gas Card, $10 ski pass, free snow-show lessons, all if you just STOP and look at Hollerns Hooverville aka Brooks Resources.
***
Mount Bachelor Village,Resort is offering special packages for winter visitors.
Bend, Oregon, 18November 2007--Mount Bachelor Village,Resort is offering special packages for winter visitors – both for skiers and visitors who just want to relax. Visitors to Bend can make reservations for any of these packages by calling their toll free number or visiting their website.
Visitors can bring some holiday cheer to the pocketbook and stay at Mount Bachelor Village Resort between December 25th 2007 and January 6th 2008 and receive a $75 gas card!*
Ski for $10: Stay TWO nights or more at Mount Bachelor Village and get lift tickets for Mt. Bachelor Ski Resort for ONLY $10. This special runs from 11/17 through 12/21 including the Thanksgiving holiday!*
Ski or Snowshoe Free: Stay for THREE nights and get TWO FREE Mt. Bachelor Ski Resort Lift Tickets or TWO FREE Wanderlust Tours guided Snowshoe Tours (visitor choice) Free lift tickets will go great with MBVR's complimentary Mt. Bachelor Bus Transportation (Thurs - Sun), or let Wanderlust Tours pick you up right here at the Resort.*
About Mount Bachelor Village Resort
A Brooks Resources development, Mount Bachelor Village Resort is Bend’s only luxury resort. Located on the road to Mt. Bachelor, Mount Bachelor Village Resort offers a wide-range of lodging accommodations, including hotel rooms, condominiums and single-family homes. The resort features: a riverside hiking trail; complimentary transportation to the mountain; a heated outdoor pool (open seasonally) and spas; six outdoor tennis courts; state-of-the-art conference center and complimentary access to the Athletic Club of Bend. For more information, call 1-800-838-9548 or visit www.mtbachelorvillage.com
It's fucking pathetic.
No wonder Bend is in the shape it is.
*
The force is strong with this one, the Kool-Aide may not be working, we may need something stronger.
I'm the one standing in person in the City Office politely requesting the results of my record requests.
[ how long must we suck your dick for doing this? is this going to be your legacy forever? are you ever going to let this be done and move on? ]
You can't even show your names online.
[ only a fucking moron goes public in bend, unless they have nothing to say that would never offend anyone like ned flanders and bruce, and then what would be the point? ]
And you bitch and whine.
[ and you don't ?? ]
It's fucking pathetic.
[ yes, Bend is pathetic ]
No wonder Bend is in the shape it is.
[ bend is fucked, but at least we're talking about it, but we have NO delusions that we can fix Bend, it was this way before you were born, and will be this way after you are dead ]
THEY CANT HANDLE THE FUCKING TRUTH!
You know, cunts, I'm the one standing in person in the City Office politely requesting the results of my record requests.
Politely? Really? I'd be in there like GIMMEE THEM RECORDS BITCH!
At least I'd like to think I would.
"The BEST POSSIBLE THING THAT COULD HAPPEN? A rapid, complete & total annihilation of the US RE market."
Which would cause a recession that would make the Great Depression of the 1930s seem like a boom. BRILLIANT!
I can't decide whether you're a masochist or just fucking crazy.
Re: how long must we suck your dick for doing this? is this going to be your legacy forever? are you ever going to let this be done and move on?
Sorry, I'm not wired that way. I;m still deluded enough to think we can make a difference.
I'll do my best not to get angry anymore, though. The anger is in direct proportion to number of beers imbibed times the number of whiners listened to. So I'll simply not listen. My bad.
Feel free to move on anytime you want, though. No one is making you look.
Re: Dart's comments
I think were fucked either way. There are just too many bad loans, and they have been sliced and diced and repackaged and sold to everything from money market funds to commericial paper held by cities like Bend. It's far to big and systemic a problem to cause anything but a massive disaster when half the subprime's go bad.
And half may be a low estimate.
Re: Honestly, how do the people of Bend keep from killing each other?
Mostly by keeping my wife happy, enjoying getting outside, and having a blast teaching kids to read, write and count.
If you don't have big mortgage, it's really pretty good around here. Definitely been a decrease in aggressive giant pickups crowding me the last six months.
Exactly. And good riddance to the big truck=tiny dick crowd.
My take (FWIW) is that this blog is about 80% realistic, 20% overly pessimistic. Sure, there are lots of greedheads who got into situations where they were screwed if they couldn't sell their flipper in 6 months. Too bad for them, serves 'em right. And the whole subprime mess is indeed scary, part of the larger picture of bailouts for big banks and tough love for the middle class. I do believe that central Oregonians (and the rest of the U.S.) are in for some tougher times, perhaps for several years. But for those of us who aren't up to our asses in debt, and don't rely on consumer crap to keep us happy, life will go on and could actually remain pretty decent.
There are also plenty of folks with reasonable mortgages who are in Bend (and elsewhere in central Oregon) for the long haul because it IS a nice place to live. Some of us don't have credit card debt or variable rate mortgages. Some us are living within our means. Jobs will be lost, no doubt about it. But not all of them. Bend is not going to vanish from the face of the earth and turn into a ghost town. The notion is fucking ludicrous.
RE Bruce's efforts to shed light on the goings on at City Hall. Thanks and keep up the good work. It is an uphill battle, and largely thankless- you may never find out exactly what and how you are making a difference. But it does make a difference- simply by serving notice to the fuckers that at least one person is paying attention and publicizing their bullshit.
Pay no attention to the dickless, lazy-ass whiners.
People who call Bend a "desert shithole" have their heads up their asses. They should just leave if they don't like it, and go check out some other areas of the U.S. Like Gary, Indiana for example. Or just about anywhere east of the Rockies and west of the eastern seaboard. Or they could try the southeast, no mountains, insane humidity, and now suffering though an unprecedented drought. Take your pick.
Crook County is now state's fastest growing. Prineville hits 10,000 people.
Posted by The Oregonian November 29, 2007 06:56AM
Categories: Central Oregon, Eastern Oregon
The Central Oregonian reports that Crook County is now ahead of Deschutes and Jefferson counties as the fastest growing one in Oregon.
The population numbers are in, and Crook County remains the fastest growing county in Oregon, with Deschutes and Jefferson Counties not far behind.
According to the Population Research Center at Portland State University, as of July 1, 2007, Crook County's population was 25,885, a 5.5 percent increase over the previous year.
Deschutes County increased 5.4 percent over the past year, with the number of residents growing to 160,810. In third place for high percentage increases was Jefferson County with a 2.9 percent growth, taking the county to 22,030 citizens.
While central Oregon counties continue to see moving trucks arrive, and rarely depart, the cities within are expanding as well.
After inching ever so close last year, Prineville has topped 10,000 people, with a count of 10,190, up 290 citizens from last year.
Madras increased from 6,070 last year to 6,585 in this year's survey. The city of Bend welcomed 2,490 residents, rising to a population of 77,780.
Bruce's efforts to shed light on the goings on at City Hall. Thanks and keep up the good work. It is an uphill battle, and largely thankless- you may never find out exactly what and how you are making a difference. - bruce
***
It's pretty sad, when you have to give yourself an attaboy!
You would think that nobody ever did anything until 'bruce' arrived.
Hey did you here that Bruce created his own website.
All by himself??
www.juniper-ridge.info
Bend's first website, at last someone in Bend has figured out how to use a computer. The Real Estate implosion is solved. Entrepreneur 'Bruce' is going to pull everyone up to his level. We have a role model in Bend.
This is more significant than the second coming, Bruce Al-Mighty!
Today's WSJ says builders are 'FUCKED' ALL building stocks going into the toilet.
Everyone is insolvent, in October builders started giving homes away and nobody even took them.
Remember that "Bend" is radiologic ground zero toxic. Bend was #1 2004 & 2005, and now its going to be #1 in implosion, losses, and bankruptcy's.
What's wrong with the healthcare in Bend?
Do tell.
Are there any Web sites talking about this now?
Thx
It's pretty sad, when you have to give yourself an attaboy!
Boy you are one stupid fuck.
I'll not divulge who or where I am but I can assure you I am not "bruce". Don't know him, never met him.
Hey Bend Realtors!
I'll buy a house!
- minimum 1,500 sq ft
- minimum 1/2 acre
- GOOD part of town
- high-quality construction
- no cookies, no crap, no bull!
I'll pay $100,000 — SEND ALL OFFERS!
Hey you!
What about that Columbia implosion that you blogged about last month?
You know all, and you said that Cesna was gonna move the shell to Witchita or some other mid-America dust bowl town. Huh?
What happened? The Bulletin says that Cesna is going to build planes here in Bend? Huh?
Didn't they get your memo? Huh?
You know, the memo where you said Columbia was a gonner. Huh?
Huh? Anybody home?
Huh?
So you believe every new employer who says 'we aren't changing anything?"
New employers never want to change employees, right? Never want to change procedures? Never change locations?
New bosses usually do things just the same as the old bosses? Cause that was working so welll.....
Give it time.
"We don't intend to make any changes" is one of those classic statements that is almost completely useless.
The landlords across the street from me said, "We aren't making any changes." A few years later, 6 out of 8 businesses are gone.
But Duncan, he read it in the Bulletin. It's gotta be true. I mean if we can't trust things from the Bulletin then...well who can we trust?
Re: I mean if we can't trust things from the Bulletin then...well who can we trust?
Considering they downloaded the LS Agreement from juniper-ridge.info, not a whole lot...
My take--it's business, and Bend is not a very sinsible place to run a worldwide business from economically. It's only a matter of time, unless the workforce is so good here that they make it worthwhile to keep them here.
sensibly
PS--Pack down 13-3, I'm getting grumpy again...
Damn, Brett, just stick to the bread and butter passes!
Bruce is having a bad day, you know that means?
Toxic Shock Syndrome.
Bruce don't leave stuff in your pussy.
Never shove bread sticks when well lubed with butter up your pussy and leave it there, even if it feels good.
This is how we lost BENDBB, he was shoving parmesan breadsticks up his ass, and leaving them there.
<<<
<<<
Home prices in Deschutes flatten out
County's price appreciation ranking drops from first place to 188th in U.S.
By David Fisher / The Bulletin
The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight's third-quarter housing prices report
Deschutes County’s residential real estate prices have gone dead flat since the end of the real estate boom.
Local home prices rose a scant 0.66 percent from the third quarter of 2006 through the third quarter of 2007, a federal housing agency reported Thursday.
The county’s price appreciation rate has now fallen from first place in the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight’s ranking of 287 metropolitan areas nationwide, where it stood through much of 2006, to 188th place in the third quarter of 2007.
Still, there are some statistical bright spots in the general market gloom.
For one thing, home prices in the Bend Metropolitan Statistical Area, which covers all of Deschutes County, have risen 91.03 percent over a five-year period despite the recent slowdown, and they have remained stronger than the once-hot markets of California and Nevada, where prices slid 3.6 percent and 2.4 percent over the last year.
For another: Despite the crushing slowdown in real estate, which is one of the region’s primary industries, people are apparently still moving here.
Deschutes County added 8,195 new residents between July 1, 2006, and July 1, 2007, according to estimates released earlier this month by the Population Research Center at Portland State University.
At 5.4 percent, that gave Deschutes County one of the highest growth rates in the state, according to PSU’s numbers, second only to neighboring Crook County, where 1,360 new residents swelled the population by 5.5 percent.
In the short term, it’s impossible for anyone to predict where local housing prices will go, Bratton Appraisal Group’s Mike Caba said Thursday. But the population numbers would tend to indicate that the region’s current real estate pain is likely to ease in the longer term as new residents chip away at the overhang of overbuilt and unsold houses, even though people in construction-related industries may be forced to switch jobs or leave.
“Some people have had to leave, but we still grow. So what does that tell you?” Caba said. “What that means for real estate prices over the next 90 days, I don’t know. But what it says going five years out, I think, is that the long-term health of the real estate market looks good. If the population continues to grow.”
Nationally, home prices in the OFHEO’s vast database dropped 0.4 percent in the third quarter — the first quarterly decline in nearly 13 years.
A handful of Western states managed to post strong gains, with home prices rising 12.9 percent in Utah, 11.8 percent in Wyoming, 7 percent in Washington and 7.4 percent in New Mexico.
But 24 of the 26 California cities in the OFHEO’s list posted price declines, led by Merced — the nation’s worst-performing market with a 13 percent decline, and followed closely by Santa Barbara with an 11.63 percent drop.
Twenty-one states posted price declines in the third quarter, and 10 posted price declines over the full year.
Prices in Oregon advanced 5.6 percent over the year while prices in Idaho rose 6.9 percent, reflecting generally strong economies in the Pacific Northwest region.
Prices in Michigan, where the auto industry continues to decline, fell 3.7 percent.
The OFHEO’s index tracks price changes on repeat sales and refinancing transactions on existing homes. It is based on an analysis of the 33 million conventional loan transactions handled over a 32-year period by the federally chartered mortgage lending giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Its price reports for Deschutes County seemed to fairly closely mirror price movements reported by the Central Oregon Association of Realtors. COAR’s quarterly data on median home prices showed a 0.57 decline year-to-year in the median price of Bend houses in the third quarter, to $349,000, and a 2.68 percent decline in the smaller Redmond market, to $253,000.
Nationally, OFHEO Chief Economist Patrick Lawler predicted a continued downward pressure on prices.
“Rising inventories of for-sale properties are clearly having a material impact on home prices,” Lawler said. “Until those inventories shrink, that will be a great source of resistance to price increases.”
About 1,340 single-family homes on urban lots remained for sale in Bend by late last week, according to Caba’s weekly analysis of data from the Central Oregon Multiple Listing Service. It would take about 10 months to clear that inventory away, given the average monthly sales volumes of the past 12 months.
What’s your house worth?
The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight hosts an online calculator to help you estimate the value of your house, based on data gleaned from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac’s storehouse of mortgage information. It’s at www.ofheo.gov/HPI.aspx
Some examples:
• If you bought a Bend house at the median price of $220,250 in the third quarter of 2004, it could be worth about $354,800 today — up 61 percent.
• A house bought at the median of $269,500 in the third quarter of 2005 could be worth $355,200 today — a 31.8 percent gain.
• If you bought at the median $351,016 price in third quarter 2006, it could be worth $353,300 today — a gain of 0.65 percent.
That assumes that you can sell it. The Central Oregon Multiple Listing Service shows about 1,340 single-family homes for sale in Bend this month, according to an analysis done by Bratton Appraisal Group’s Mike Caba — a 10-month supply at the year’s average monthly sales rate.
>>>>>>Never shove bread sticks...
Paul, I'm all for a free forum, but no one benefits when people anonymously post disgusting flames like this. Not telling you how to run your blog, just asking you to think about it.
Not telling you how to run your blog, just asking you to think about it. - bruce
*
Join the dark side homer, and be just line your pal bendbb.
In my humble opinion, the TSS comment is mild. This person is obviously a newbie.
Note below that Bend was the #1 in being 'overvalued', nothing about 'appreciation'. For two years in a row Bend was the #1 over-value RE in the USA. Now its still the #1 over-valued.
A long long way to fall.
***
Home prices in Deschutes flatten out
County's price appreciation ranking drops from first place to 188th in U.S.
By David Fisher / The Bulletin
The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight's third-quarter housing prices report
Deschutes County’s residential real estate prices have gone dead flat since the end of the real estate boom.
Considering they [ BULLetin ] downloaded the LS Agreement from juniper-ridge.info, not a whole lot... - bruce
*
So there your have it, everyone that touches 'bruces' precious LS-Agreement is getting their IP micro-analyzed.
It's quite amusing that our Bruce is collecting IP's of folks interested in his LS-Agreement, and telling homer to censor his site.
Re: getting your precious IP analyzed
Every website in existence has log files, they come with the server software. Get over it. You use them to see whats being downloaded alot to manage bandwidth. Usually all you see is an IP number; occasionally it's resolved to a company name. I don't care who you are or what you do or I wouldn't be publicly identifiable.
But I'll admit being amused to see www.bendbulletin.com in the log, downloading everything.
Every website in existence has log files, they come with the server software. Get over it.
*
That's exactly the point, you could have put the fucking LSA pdf on 'brucealmighty.blogsite.com', but then you wouldn't have access to the IP's. You created a native website for that reason only.
End of fucking story.
Your a fucking agent provocateur.
Re: End of fucking story
Do you ever use Google?
Do you ever use Google?
Do you ever douche?
"About 1,340 single-family homes on urban lots remained for sale in Bend by late last week..."
Does anyone know any figures for historical comparison? For example, what was the average number of single-family homes on urban lots for sale in Bend in November in 2000 and 2006? Just ballpark is fine. Just curious.
Now we have a reason for Powdrz to KILL the free-pass.
(*)
Lawmakers look to clarify ‘volunteering’ at Bachelor
By James Sinks / The Bulletin
Published: December 01. 2007 5:00AM PST
SALEM — Oregon lawmakers in February may react to a Court of Appeals ruling that threatens to undercut ski patrols and other nonprofits that use free ski passes or other gifts to entice and reward volunteers.
Becky Breeze say's everything is wonderful - 01dec2007
(*)
Tess Vigeland: So we heard earlier in the show that home prices are dropping all over the place. Well, a lot of buyers are trying to figure out when the bottom will hit.
Ethan Lindsey was one of them. He's a reporter for Oregon Public Broadcasting in Bend, Oregon. That city tripled its population over the last 15 years. Home prices rose in tandem.
Ethan sent us this story about jumping on the roller coaster that is the real estate market.
Ethan Lindsey: At one time, Bend was home to the world's second-largest lumber operation. But in the early 80's, new environmental rules and cheaper Canadian wood killed the town's economy.
That is until early retirees and ski bums discovered the city and turned it into a resort town. Locals now call it "the Vail of the Northwest."
In 1992, the Brooks-Scanlon Mill cut its final piece of wood. Today, the Old Mill building is home to an REI, a Victoria's Secret, and a Gap store.
The housing market in town has moved upscale, too. Back when lumberjack flannel was fashionable, median home prices were under $100,000.
Last month, I went on a home tour with local real estate agent Becky Breeze. She told me the average home today sells for $350,000.
Lindsey: So what do these start at then?
Becky Breeze: These start at $599,900. And, depending on what you're looking at, go higher.
Breeze has sold homes in Bend for more than two decades. And in that time, more and more baby boomers from California have discovered Bend, but the tipping point came two years ago. Home prices in Bend jumped by more than 30 percent between the years 2005 and 2006. That was the biggest leap in the entire country.
Kent Chapple owns a coffee shop in town and a home as well. He says homebuyers here read their property prices like the stock pages.
Kent Chapple: I do pay attention to it but I knew that it was overvalued. And all my neighbors were all excited about how our houses had increased in value. But it was kind of funny to me, because where you gonna move to, right? Everything has increased. So, if my house is worth more but I can't afford to buy a new house, then what difference does it make, you know?
I do know, sort of. I've been looking to buy my first house since July and I expected home prices to be very affordable in a smaller town.
Instead, they're on par with big cities like Portland or Seattle.
Breeze: The homes are gorgeous...
Realtor Becky Breeze doesn't have a bad word to say about Bend. To her, the home prices mean the market is bright.
But, even she sees some dark clouds on the horizon.
Breeze: The only problem is that so many agents went into the business and so many mortgage brokers went into the business during that little upside period that there's not enough to support that many people.
Breeze says Bend's home prices have bucked the national trend and stayed stable -- so far.
Breeze: We wish some our houses would sell faster, absolutely.
In fact, home sales are expected to be 25 percent lower this year than the boom year of 2005 and like the rest of the country, that's pushed the number of unsold homes on the market to record levels.
More supply with less demand is what economists would call a buyer's market. And that's good for me. I've even seen desperation in some home sellers' eyes.
At several open houses, the seller started to haggle with me the moment I walked in the door. In the past few months, I've walked through 30 or so homes in my price range. Of those, fewer than five have sold.
Dawn Dwyer is a realtor in town. I chose her as my agent because she works with first time homebuyers.
Dawn Dwyer: We are definitely in a full-swing buyer's market.
Dwyer says that in 2005, many of the homes I've looked at would have been swamped with multiple offers on the day they were listed and furious bidding wars broke out over these homes.
My experience has been the opposite. In my hunt, I fell in love with a two-bedroom bungalow with a nice breakfast nook and a great front yard. When I first saw the house, it had been on the market for more than a month. I finally got it for $20,000 less than the price on the sign out front.
Dwyer: It's the true story of what it's like to be in a buyer's market and what it's like to be in a seller's. In that fast a time, a few years, to see that much of a difference, it's amazing. Yeah, you're really lucky.
So the housing slowdown does have some positives, at least for buyers like me, but, as a whole, the city probably isn't so happy.
Real estate is the third-largest employer in Bend. It pays the salaries of 15 percent of working residents.
That scares some economists who say if the housing market goes, so could the local economy.
That scares me, too. Maybe this isn't the time to be buying that first home.
In Bend, Oregon, I'm Ethan Lindsey for Marketplace Money.
Florida...the shit has hit the fan. Coming to a bubble RE town near you.
Florida Governments Reject Idea of Accepting Losses on Pool
By David Evans
Dec. 1 (Bloomberg) -- A newly formed advisory panel composed of Florida school and local government officials with money frozen in a state-run investment pool said they won't accept a return of less than 100 percent of their investment.
Members of the new panel, on a conference call late yesterday with officials from the agency that runs the fund, rejected a proposal to survey pool participants to determine whether they would accept as little as 90 cents on the dollar of their deposits in order to access their money in December.
``The very fact that you're out here talking to us about taking less than 100 percent is in my mind unacceptable,'' said MaryEllen Elia, superintendent of Hillsborough County Public Schools, which has $573 million tied up in the pool, more than any other school district. ``You need to figure out how to make the taxpayers in Florida whole. It isn't going to be fixed by asking us to take less than what we put in there.''
School districts, towns and cities across Florida were cut off from their money after the State Board of Administration, manager of the Local Government Investment Pool, halted withdrawals Nov. 29 to stem a run on the fund. Participants pulled out almost half the pool's $27 billion in assets after learning it held $1.5 billion of downgraded and defaulted debt tainted by the collapse of the subprime mortgage market.
Thousands of schools, towns and fire departments across the U.S. keep their cash in state- and county-run public accounts. Modeled after private money-market funds, the funds are supposed to invest in safe, liquid, short-term debt.
Bursting Bubble
The downgrades in Florida show the far-reaching effects of the bursting of the housing bubble as complex investment vehicles once marketed as high-yielding, safe havens are now backed by collateral investors don't want.
Late yesterday, the board disclosed that an additional $1 billion was withdrawn from the pool just before the freeze, reducing its size to $14 billion, a 48 percent decline for the month. On Nov. 29, state officials said the pool held $15 billion.
Representatives of pool participants from schools, cities and counties said they would press Governor Charlie Crist and the Legislature next week for a cash infusion. Kevin SigRist, deputy executive director of the State Board of Administration, said the board can't promise to make them whole.
``We don't ever want to be in a situation here at the SBA where we are somehow issuing guarantees or suggestions that everyone will get dollar for dollar,'' said SigRist, who substituted on the call for executive director Coleman Stipanovich.
Meeting Next Week
The Florida board's three trustees -- Crist, state Chief Financial Officer Alex Sink and Attorney General Bill McCollum - - will meet again on Dec. 4 to consider the crisis.
No call participants from the State Board of Administration could say if the board had selected an independent financial adviser for the pool, as the trustees ordered Nov. 29.
The sometimes raucous telephone conference call, which lasted more than two hours into the early evening, ended with a decision to poll pool investors on how much cash they absolutely need to withdraw from the pool over the next 90 days, as well as how much they plan to deposit.
By freezing the Florida fund, officials left governments without ready access to cash they are accustomed to drawing upon for routine expenditures. The pool was the largest of its kind in the U.S. at $27 billion before the unprecedented withdrawals.
The Jefferson County school district was forced to take out a short-term loan to cover payroll for the 220 teachers and other employees in the system after $2.7 million it held in the pool was frozen. At least five other districts also obtained last-minute loans, said Wayne Blanton, executive director of the Florida School Boards Association.
``The unthinkable and the unimaginable have just happened here in Florida,'' said Hal Wilson, chief financial officer of the Jefferson County school district.
To contact the reporter on this story: David Evans in Los Angeles at davidevans@bloomberg.net .
Last Updated: December 1, 2007 00:02 EST
Re; Florida fund
Wow. That is unprecedented. Some real bad juju coming the US's way.
Last numbers I saw was that the City had $11M in commercial paper. Don't know about the county. Wonder if any is in subprime paper?
Why can't we go back after the people that sold this shit as safe paper? It seems to be the root of the problem. We're only seeing the tip of the iceberg right now.
First of ALL what the fuck does this have to do with Bend? Do we know for a fact that School Districts in Central Oregon invested OUR money in CDO's??? That would be the first test.
Does CO have money in this? Yes or No?
(*)
Florida Governments Reject Idea of Accepting Losses on Pool
Nothing less than 100 percent of their investment.
Since we're on the subject of Florida, of which has NOTHING to do with Bend. The following tells exactly what's going on in FL, note the Bloomberg story is simply hysertia. Oregon doesn't have an SBA, and our our fiduciary laws require that the investments are made safely. Florida had been playing lose since 1984, and as the below says the public managers simply created their own run on the bank.
Nada a fucking thing to do with Oregon.
It sounds like the below, that FL blames Bloomberg for the losses, and the press may soon be the wrong end on a lawsuit for stimulating a 'bank-run' which FYI is a felony.
(*)
Local Florida Take on Issue.
12/01/07
Local officials say statewide financial crisis self-inflicted
The financial panic over a state-run investment fund for local governments never should have happened, said administrators from Punta Gorda, Charlotte and DeSoto counties, and Charlotte County Public Schools.
The local governments refrained from participating in a Great Depression-style "bank run" on their accounts in the Local Government Investment Pool, which is basically a money market fund where municipal governments can deposit their cash at an attractive rate of interest. It has been administered by the State Board of Administration since 1982.
But many localities overreacted to a mid-November report from Bloomberg L.P. stating that the issuers of about $900 million in short-term commercial paper had "defaulted" on their obligations. This $900 million represented only about 5 percent of the total pool.
For example, Orange County withdrew its entire $370 million investment on Nov. 16, Bloomberg reported.
"Basically, the SBA is only to invest in very secure, responsible, no-risk securities," said Jan Brewer, administrative services director for DeSoto County.
In fact, the debtors continued to pay principal and interest on their obligations. They never defaulted -- but bond rating agencies downgraded them to below the super-secure level required by the state. News of this touched off the panic.
At worst, the SBA may have erred in picking these investments -- even though they were investment grade at the time of their purchase, Brewer said. "But I don't think it's a reason to cause a run on the bank," she added.
By Thursday, local governments and school districts had withdrawn about $16.5 billion of their investments, reducing the pool to a mere $14 million over just a few days, according to the SBA. The pool's trustees -- Gov. Charlie Crist, Chief Financial Officer Alex Sink and Attorney General Bill McCollum -- then made a joint decision to freeze all accounts, at least until Tuesday, when they are scheduled to meet again to discuss a recovery plan.
Charlotte County reports about $142 million frozen in the pool. The school district has about $50 million, the city of Punta Gorda about $13 million, and DeSoto County about $9.5 million.
"We're not panicking because we think the state will resolve it -- it's too important not to resolve," said Howard Kunik, Punta Gorda city manager. He noted that the city pulled about $10 million out the pool prior to the panic and invested it with Wachovia and Bank of America. Even if the pool were to remain frozen -- an unlikely prospect -- Punta Gorda has enough money available to meet its obligations at least through March.
Not only was the panic completely unnecessary, but the reaction from the state's top leadership is probably overkill, said Tommy White, chief deputy for board services in the office of Charlotte County Clerk of Court Barbara Scott. White is basically the county's investment adviser -- under Florida law, the clerk of court is also the county's chief financial officer, and White is Scott's top assistant for this function.
"This whole crisis was press-created," White said. "The implication was that the $900 million in this investment was worthless -- and nothing could be further from the truth."
The SBA reported this week that what was characterized in news reports as "defaulted" debts actually paid out $64 million in principal and interest. White said he has no reason to doubt the truth of this statement.
Here's White's take on what actually happened:
A few companies started having liquidity problems that resulted in their mortgage-backed commercial paper -- short-term debt issued to finance business transactions -- being downgraded by bond rating services to less than what the state will accept, White said.
But the debtors responded to the problem in a common and proper way -- they asked their creditors for more time to pay off, agreeing to a slightly higher interest rate in exchange, White said.
Also, the commercial paper had good collateral -- long-term mortgages, mostly with good credit risks who paid 20 percent or more down on their homes, White said. Any panic over the sub-prime mortgage market should not have applied in this case.
Knowing these facts, White said the only correct course of action would be to hold on to the commercial paper until maturity. Under current market conditions, the state would have had a hard time selling the paper at par value. And considering that $900 million is only a small portion of the total pool, the state had no need to even consider selling at a loss, just to rid its portfolio of less-than-investment-grade securities, White said.
"Basically, this is just a microcosm of what's going on in the commercial paper market nationwide," said Greg Griner, chief financial officer for Charlotte County Public Schools. "Basically, there are some real liquidity problems with asset-backed commercial paper -- nobody wants to buy it right now. The free flow that normally occurs is pretty dry."
He continued: "We've got a problem that should not be existing. We've got a run on the bank based on a herd mentality, rather than on an underlying reality."
Again noting that the downgraded securities still had good collateral, Griner described the problem as being "one of credit quality versus liquidity." Whatever temporary problems the debtors area having, they still bring some real assets to the table.
Now, it will be up to Crist, Sink and McCollum to come up with a recovery plan next week. Both White and Griner agreed that the state has a simple solution at hand -- if only the top leadership has the gumption to add a tiny bit of risk to the state's $135 billion pension fund.
White noted that $900 million worth of less-than-investment-grade securities should not have been a problem in a roughly $30 billion pool. Transfer to the $135 billion pension fund would have diluted this risk even further. Furthermore, pension fund deposits and disbursements are much more regular and predictable than those to the pool.
"We (localities) use the pool almost like a checking account," White said. He added that he knows of no personal checking account that regularly pays 5 percent -- which is why localities historically have considered the pool a great deal.
On Thursday, Crist, Sink and McCollum briefly considered guaranteeing the money in the pool with the money in the pension fund. But they collectively flinched, on the justification that doing so would compromise the pension fund.
Both White and Griner said that this was a spectacularly bad call -- which was compounded by the decision to freeze accounts pending some sort of resolution next week. The freeze "violated the trust we had in the SBA for years and years," White said.
Looking ahead, both White and Griner said they hope that the state's top leadership decides to retain the less-than-perfect securities. "I don't want to see them have a liquidation at fire-sale prices," Griner said.
Then, they should lift the freeze and simply use the pension fund to back up the money in the pool. "They have the power to do that. But do they have the political will to solve the problem? Or will they compound the problem?" Griner said.
Here's a guy that's made $2.7B off the RE implosion, and has done well for his investors. On positive note, up 340% year to date, and 40% average since 1998.
Paulson Housing Bets Make $2.7 Billion, Beat Citadel (Update1)
By Anthony Effinger
Nov. 29 (Bloomberg) -- The subprime crisis that's caused so much trauma for hedge funds and investment banks has brought only good news for John Paulson. He's the manager of more than $7 billion in hedge fund money keyed to mortgage credit.
Paulson started warning his investors back in the middle of 2006 that the frenzy to build and sell housing was a bubble about to pop. His New York-based firm, Paulson & Co., made big bets predicting the edifice would soon come crashing down. The wager paid off in the first nine months of 2007, when Paulson's Credit Opportunities funds rose an average of 340 percent.
That gain earned Paulson an estimated $1.14 billion in performance fees for the nine months ended on Sept. 28. Fees on Paulson's other eight funds bring his total to $2.69 billion, which puts Paulson and co-manager Paolo Pellegrini at the top of Bloomberg's ranking of best-paid hedge fund managers. John Paulson is no relation to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, the former chief executive officer of Goldman Sachs Group Inc.
Next on the list is Philip Falcone, whose New York-based Harbinger Capital Partners also bet against the housing boom and collected incentive payouts of $1.3 billion for the same nine months. In third place was Jim Simons, president of Renaissance Technologies LLC in East Setauket, New York.
Simons made the list based solely on the performance of his $6 billion Medallion Fund, which rose more than 50 percent through Sept. 28, throwing off fees of more than $1 billion. Medallion, started in 1988, manages money almost entirely for Simons, 69, and his employees. From 1989 through 2006, Medallion returned an average of 38.5 percent a year.
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