Sunday, November 30, 2008

Bailout Nation

First, I just want to say that The Most Likely International Incident To Be Ignored As Insignificant And Boomerang On Our Corpulent AmeriKKKan Asses is this crap happening in Mumbai.

I know, we've had to endure these low-grade terrorist boom-boom's since Osama showed the World How It's Really Done.

But this one seems different. Blowing up a Train In Spain where the chards fall Mainly On The Plains is one thing. Spain is the trailer park of Europe.

India, in case you've been lost in a fog of hyper-consumerism for the past decade, is RICH. India is extremely wealthy nowadays, and there is NOTHING up-and-comers like to prove more than I Can Kick Your Poor Ass. We've been doing it for 50 years.

Just keep it in mind: That Mumbai shit could escalate to NUCLEAR in no time at all. Always stay alert on where the next downleg can come from.

Speaking of head-in-hand Pathetic, I still very occasionally head over to Bend Economy Board (via ANONYMOUS PROXY!!!!) to see if things are headed up over there. Well, except for BendBB's still kick-ass data collection, this thing has seemingly turned into a Ra-Ra board for RE. To wit:

Housing Consumer Confidence Returns!
posted by:
No better time to buy

All you have to do is read some of the comments to see few people, IF ANY, are buying this tripe. But there is the occasional Realtor plant:

I will admit, having been actively in the real estate market (looking for a good deal on a house) for some time now, there has been an unmistakable uptick in activity.

And there are the Ever-Ebullient Perma-Bulls, like Jack Elliott, for whom No Piece Of Bad News Is Truly Bad.

And I'm sure a lot of people think that I am of the "100% All About Any Piece Of Bad News Is 100% True, And Any Good News Is Bullshit" mindset. Not true.

I just feel that we are in the post-traumatic throes of a Bubble Deflation that will bring down this country to a financial level we have not experienced in 50-100 years. And there will be nowhere in the US that suffers more than Bend.

And I think what I've been saying here about the Nationwide Vicious Aftermath is pretty clear for all to see. Number 1 News Item for months now. But what about Bend?

I'll tell you right now that Bend is going to be ravaged harder than anywhere in the U.S. There's a bit of a somber mood about town, and you can finally actually speak about The Current Bad Times at a cocktail party without fear of ostracism.

But THIS is NOTHING. This is NOTHING compared to what is coming. Just take a look out the Side View Window:
Bend Annual October Unemployment, Oct 1990 - Oct 2008.

It's pretty plain to see that we spanned almost the Entire Gamut of the previous 19 years of economic activity, in one feel swoop, going from some of the lowest unemployment rates ever, to The Highest October Unemployment Rate On Record In One Year.

This AIN'T a Bump In the Road. Wait for February. We will see The Worst Unemployment Rates In Modern Bend History. There's going to be some Major Epiphanizing going on; People realizing EN MASSE that YES, Bend Is Different. IT'S WORSE THAN ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE U.S.

The Bulletin, of course, ran a piece regarding the Great Deflation Of Bend (Population), but it began with a hashing over of The Glory Hole Years.

"This Here? Why, This Is A Little Bump In The Road! Bigger & Better Than Ever In No Time, And So Forth. Yes, Yes. Outdoor Recreation, Wealthy Widows With Big Ol Double Deez, Monsters Of Cock On 96 Year Old Men! It's A Paradise!"

Yeah. Right.

OK, here's an interesting piece that should get your pot boiling, if you managed to act in a fiscally responsible manner for the past 10 years.

Why lenders might forgive your debt

There was a time when lenders didn't want to work with you if you couldn't pay. Now they want to avoid foreclosure, lawsuits or repossession almost as much as you do.

By Liz Pulliam Weston


People who overdosed on debt in recent years learned the paradox of easy credit: While lenders were willing to let you borrow copious amounts, they weren't particularly interested in helping you work out a solution if you fell behind on repayment.

Lenders often found it easier and cheaper to write off delinquent accounts as bad debt than work with you on a repayment plan. After all, they could get a tax break on the loss and then get on with the profitable business of extending credit to the next guy.

Lately, however, lender perspectives have changed. Soaring default rates, a weakening economy and the credit crunch have rewritten the rules.

* Credit card lenders charged off 5.47% of the total amounts owed on cards as bad debt in the second quarter, according to the Federal Reserve. A year ago, the charge-off rate was 3.85%.

* Consumer bankruptcy filings in October topped 100,000, a 40% increase from a year earlier and the highest level since the federal bankruptcy reform law took effect in October 2005, according to the American Bankruptcy Institute.

* More than 2.2 million homeowners are more than 60 days late on their mortgage payments, according to the Hope Now alliance of lenders and credit counselors, and one in six homeowners owes more on a home than it's worth.

* With home prices plummeting, every foreclosure now represents a loss of 44% of the original loan amount, up from 29% a year ago, according to data from LPS Applied Analytics.

That's why lenders are now looking for ways to keep people paying their bills, even if it means forgiving some of their debt. Now the paradox is that in order to qualify, you must be struggling, but not so much that a change in terms wouldn't help you.

How the new programs work

The most sweeping new program was announced Nov. 11. Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, the government agencies that guarantee 31 million U.S. mortgages, will begin paying the mortgage service companies that maintain the loans $800 for every loan they modify. Borrowers would get help in several ways: Interest rates would be reduced so that borrowers would not pay more than 38% of their gross income on housing expenses. Another option is for loans to be extended from 30 years to 40 years, and for some of the principal amount to be deferred interest-free.

The same day, Citigroup announced it would halt foreclosures for borrowers who live in their own homes, have decent incomes and stand a good chance of making lowered mortgage payments. Ultimately, it plans to modify the repayment terms on up to $20 billion in loans.

Late last month, JPMorgan Chase expanded its mortgage modification program to an estimated $70 billion in loans, which could aid as many as 400,000 homeowners. The modifications were to include reducing amounts owed or the loans' interest rates, and replacing so-called "pay option" loans that typically resulted in mortgages growing over time.

Bank of America, meanwhile, has said that starting Dec. 1, it will modify an estimated 400,000 loans held by newly acquired Countrywide Financial as part of an $8.4 billion legal settlement reached with 11 states in early October.

Loan forgiveness is a key part of the Hope for Homeowners program. This is the foreclosure prevention program that Congress created as part of the $700 billion Economic and Housing Recovery Act of 2008. Lenders that want to participate typically must agree to reduce borrowers' principal to 90% of their homes' current value.

But wait, there's more

In late October, a coalition of lenders and consumer advocates asked banking regulators to approve a pilot program that would allow struggling borrowers to pay off, over time, less than they owe -- as much as 40% less. Under current rules, any repayment plan has to be for the full amount owed.

Though the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency rejected the first draft over how banks would book the resulting losses, backers of the plan say they're committed to finding a remedy for overtaxed borrowers that's short of bankruptcy -- which would likely mean the banks see no repayment at all.

In the first proposal, a joint project of the Financial Services Roundtable and the Consumer Federation of America, applicants would have been evaluated by certified credit counselors; those who couldn't pay off their debt under a regular debt management program would have been placed in one of four repayment plans that would reduce their principal by 10%, 20%, 30% or 40%. Only consumers closest to bankruptcy could have qualified for the biggest reduction.

Travis Plunkett of the Consumer Federation of America said his group would continue to lobby regulators "to do everything they can, within bounds of the safety and soundness of the financial system, to help consumers," but that ultimately consumer advocates may have to turn to lawmakers for help.

"It may be Congress that has to step in, and I think there's a lot of interest there" in doing so, Plunkett said. "We've got a train wreck coming."

Student loans and car debt

Meanwhile, makers of student and auto loans haven't announced any new plans for forgiveness. In recent years, in fact, both groups made escaping their debt more difficult. But:

* Certain borrowers can still get portions of their federal student loans forgiven through volunteer work, military service and teaching in low-income communities. And Congress passed a law in 2007 that wipes out federal student loan debt for people who work in certain jobs and who make 10 years of on-time payments. Plus:

* Auto lenders are stepping up their education efforts to let troubled borrowers know they have alternatives if they fall behind on their car payments. According to credit bureau Experian, more than 500,000 borrowers are 30 days or more overdue on a car loan.

Yet fewer than half of consumers in a recent poll knew that auto financing companies often worked with troubled borrowers, said Eric Hoffman, spokesman for the Aware, an education group set up by auto dealers and lenders that commissioned the survey.

Auto lenders may be able to modify a loan to stretch payments over a longer period or allow borrowers to make up missing payments, Hoffman said.

"We tell people, 'Don't ignore the situation if you're having trouble,'" Hoffman said. "Get in contact with your lender and see if there's a way to work out a different payment plan."

The same advice holds true for student loans. You may be eligible for income-sensitive or graduated repayment plans or, if you're facing economic hardship, forbearance or deferment that would allow you to skip payments for up to three years.

Here's what to do about other debt:

Credit cards. If you're already behind on your credit card payments, you shouldn't wait to see if you'll qualify for any loan forgiveness programs. Make two calls: one to a legitimate credit counselor and another to an experienced bankruptcy attorney. Between the two, you'll get the information you'll need to decide whether you should continue paying your debt or have it "forgiven" by the U.S. bankruptcy court.

Mortgages. Gather your paperwork -- your mortgage documents, last year's tax return and some recent pay stubs -- and call a HUD-approved housing counselor to evaluate your situation and your options. If you qualify for a loan modification program, the counselor can help you get through to your lender's loss mitigation department, which will evaluate your application.

A lender will want evidence that you're in trouble -- and assurances that any changes will keep the payments coming. Don't expect that it will immediately hack your loan balance to what the house is currently worth; it won't.

Your lender has only a few ways to help you: It can reduce your interest rate, defer payments, extend the length of the loan or forgive some part of your principal.

With your counselor's help, you should decide what solution you want before approaching the lender. If you have a temporary situation such as an illness that will be resolved soon, for example, ask for deferred payments. If your adjustable-rate mortgage is about to reset, use MSN Money's Mortgage Calculator to see if a reduced interest rate could keep you in your home.

You may have trouble getting your lender's attention. That's particularly true if you haven't already fallen behind on your payments, something you should try to avoid, because late payments can kill your credit scores.

In that situation, consider getting an attorney's help, said lawyer and mortgage broker Alan Jablonski, author of "Successfully Navigating the Mortgage Maze" and operator of the AJ Consumer Watch Web site.

Unlike some of those who advertise loan modification help, attorneys have a fiduciary duty to put their clients first (and clients have many remedies, including lawsuits and disciplinary complaints to the bar association, if the attorney fails to fulfill those duties).

That's a far cry from many of the fly-by-night outfits that demand big upfront fees and then fail to act, or disappear with the money.If you decide to hire an attorney, you'll have to find one on your own, Jablonski said; anyone legitimate has a full workload and isn't proactively contacting potential clients.

Your state's bar association may offer referrals. In any case, you'll need to confirm that the attorney is in good standing with the bar, and that he or she has experience with loan modification.

Published Nov. 17, 2008

Just read that over. Sounds good, right? Actually, no. Most of these "workouts" are simple extensions of the loan term, or rolling missed payments into the principal.

You've got to understand these loan workouts are a clusterfuck. They ACTUALLY REWARD PEOPLE FOR DEFAULTING. You are only eligible for The Best Workouts if You Are 3 Months Behind, or are on the verge of going bust. If you are playing by the rules, you get screwed. To wit:

Feel like a sucker? You're not alone

Bailouts are going to reckless Wall Street bankers, to homeowners over their heads and now maybe even to Americans hooked on credit cards. Where's the reward in doing the right thing?

By Liz Pulliam Weston

If you feel like you're being played, you're not alone.

The financial crisis has deepened many people's suspicions that doing the right thing hasn't paid off. Instead, they feel it's made them chumps.

You see it in the "Where's my @#$%ing bailout?" T-shirts, the despair about plummeting retirement accounts and the hostile comments that greet every news story about mortgage restructuring or credit card forgiveness.

One reader put it this way:

"Doesn't keeping your promises mean anything? Most if not all of the people who snagged these (mortgages) were well aware of the risk and the responsibility. It kills me that I'm playing by the rules and bailing out those who were greedy, stupid or both."

Even when they're not directing their anger at anyone in particular, many of my readers feel like they've been led down the garden path.

"I am 62 years old and HAD been planning to retire in 5 years," one wrote. "Although I have lived frugally my entire life and put away 15% of my income every year in a retirement account, my balanced portfolio lost 60% of its value in the last two months."

What he wanted to know: Would he be a bigger fool for pulling his money out of the market now or staying in and possibly suffering more lumps?

If you have similar questions -- if you suspect you're being a chump for making your mortgage payments, paying your credit card bills and continuing to invest in your 401(k) -- read on. You're certainly not alone as you watch others exploit loopholes, mistakes and well-intentioned remedies.

Bailed out but still ruined

The question of why some homeowners are getting bailouts has really been answered by the financial turmoil of the past few months. A huge spike in foreclosures, magnified by derivatives cooked up by Wall Street firms, nearly brought down the global economy. As it stands, we're still likely to suffer one heck of a hangover in the form of a serious recession.

The foreclosure mess is far from over. Many of the riskiest loans -- the ones where homeowners weren't even paying all the interest that was accumulating on their loans each month, let alone touching the principals -- are just now resetting.

Then there's the whole vicious-cycle effect, which I wrote about in April. As foreclosures rise, banks slash the prices of the homes they recover, putting downward pressure on everybody else's property values. With more homes "underwater," more fall into foreclosure when their owners lose a job and can't sell, or simply decide to walk away.

That's why the Powers That Be are finally getting serious about working with struggling homeowners. Given how interconnected everything is in our economy, their success in saving your neighbor from foreclosure might ultimately reduce the chances you'll lose your job.

I agree that a lot of borrowers were complete idiots for agreeing to mortgages that were eight or nine times their incomes (a mortgage that was three times your income used to be considered a stretch in the days before lenders went nuts). Smart borrowers fixed their rates for at least as long as they planned to stay in their homes; dumb ones agreed to adjustable-rate mortgages on their brokers' assurances that they'd be able to refinance before the payments reset.

But borrowers didn't get these loans in a vacuum. Mortgage brokers and loan officers downplayed the risks. So did lenders, who gave the brokers and loan officers fat incentives to push them. The Wall Street machine encouraged looser lending standards and created exotic investment products that wound up multiplying, rather than reducing, the risks. Regulators, meanwhile, stood by and basically did nothing. No one involved is covered in glory.

Neither is anyone getting an entirely free ride. Plenty of people will still lose their homes, and many who get workouts will have to live with trashed credit from the payments they missed before help arrived.

Forgiven but not forgotten

Personally, I wouldn't trade places with any of them, not even the ones who'll wind up keeping the bigger, fancier homes my husband and I decided we couldn't afford. I wouldn't want to live with the anxiety those troubled borrowers have faced ever since they got unaffordable mortgages or the uncertainty they're feeling as they wonder whether a workout will save their homes. Those folks made a hell of a gamble, and even with efforts to help on the rise, most of them are still going to lose.

Give me a home bought with a fat down payment and a 30-year fixed rate any day.
Forgiven but not forgotten
So how about the people who may be about to get big chunks of their credit card debts forgiven?

Major credit card issuers are seeking permission to knock down troubled borrowers' debts by as much as 40%. Debtors would get preferential tax treatment as well; they wouldn't owe income tax on the forgiven debt until they'd paid off the remainder of their balances.

Credit card issuers are recognizing the obvious: that their free-lending ways have come back to bite them. Delinquencies are soaring, and issuers' charge-offs -- balances written off as bad debt -- are up nearly 50% compared with last year.

The issuers figure getting something out of these debtors is better than getting nothing if they stop paying or file for bankruptcy.

The number of people admitted to the issuers' proposed pilot program would be small -- about 50,000 -- although enrollments likely would rise if the plan worked as anticipated.

You might have a beef with this particular bailout if you faced a huge pile of debt and opted to pay it off rather than have it wiped out in bankruptcy.

But once again, I'd rather be financially responsible and conservative than not. I'm not sorry that we've always limited our credit card charges to what we could pay in full every month.

Maybe we haven't bought as many toys as the folks who carried debt and are about to have some of it forgiven. But we also haven't spent a fortune in interest charges, which those people certainly have.

And I seriously doubt I'd have to pay higher interest rates or suffer in any way from this program, even if it became wildly successful. Those of us with good credit still would get the best rates, as I explained in "The real victims of deadbeats? Other deadbeats."
Investing blindly makes you a sucker

How about the last station on the have-I-been-a-sucker line: investing. Surely we were sold a bill of goods when we were told stocks are a good long-term investment. Haven't they gone essentially nowhere for a decade now?

Yes, except that those who continue to invest, in good times and in bad, inevitably come out ahead. MSN Money columnist Jim Jubak explains it best in "When to start investing? Now."

The folks who blow it are the ones who take too much risk in the good times, then panic and bail out in the bad, locking in their losses.

The reader who asked whether he should stay or go is a case in point. So close to retirement, he should have been ratcheting back on his risk. Although he thought his portfolio was balanced, it clearly wasn't -- otherwise, it wouldn't have dropped 30% during the worst of this fall's gyrations, let alone 60%.

This just encapsulates somewhat, the Heinous Agency Problems we are in the midst of creating.

We've already bailed out Huge Banks and Insurers. We are starting to bailout homeowners who have defaulted (ie; SPECULATORS). We're headed towards an Auto bailout, cuz Barack loves Unions, and the largely Muslim sections of Southern Michigan.

Everyone, it seems, is being Bailed Out. Except The Responsible. Those who lived within their means. I'll agree that Hard Times can hit those who deserve it least. But I'll also put forth that ALMOST NONE OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN BAILED OUT SO FAR MEET THAT DESCRIPTION.

They've said that They Will Print Money Until This Thing Is Solved.

That will, of course, solve nothing. It simply devalues the proxy by which we exchange goods & services. It also redistributes that proxy. Those of least merit are simply given wealth.

This is where we are on a slippery slope. We're a Bailout Nation 100% Addicted To Government Handouts. This should sound EXTREMELY FAMILAR to our local condition. Bend is NOTHING but a taxpayer boondoggle municipality where wealth is redistributed to those who know that local government is nothing more than a wealth redistribution mechanism. Ask Hooker Creek & Knife River: These are less profit seeking corporations, than Sucker Fish on the ailing Bend Slush Fund City Council.

We're NOT governed as much as we are pilfered of our wealth in Bend. Look no further than the last City Council election. Bought & Paid For By COBA. We deserve whatever we get.

And what we'll get is endless USELESS contracts to build infrastructure & "affordable homes".

I actually saw cripple ramps next to The New COVA building on Harriman & Irving, REMOVED and replaced with regular CURBS. Our City, in it's Infinite Wisdom, has decided to allocate resources AWAY from frivolities like Firemen & Policemen, and TOWARDS bricking up cripple ramps at warp speed. Why? Cuz a cripple ramp built TWICE, and still FAILS TO MEET GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS, is a hell of a profitable racket, and THAT IS ALL BEND IS.

That's us: Schemes & Scams that rob the citizens & reward GRIFTERS. And these poeple essentially RUN our EXECUTIVE & JUSTICE systems, as well. So what should we expect?

Well, from my own experience, I can say NEAR ENDLESS ATTEMPTS TO SHUTDOWN UNSAVORY FREE-SPEECH RE BLOGS. Yeah, it's become an onslaught. And just so you know, if this thing just DISAPPEARS one day, THAT IS THE REASON.

We can also expect cops & judges to be on the dole. This fucking place is going to be The Most Corrupt City On Earth, and we are well on our way. It's just going to be a bunch of suckerfish sucking on a corpse. Sooner or later, the money will go away, and all the Corporate Welfare Sleeze will just up & leave, and we'll be left with a hollow husk. It's already happening. They're gutting city services, while erecting ridiculous roundabout art.

Simply incredible. We're going 100% BROKE, and they're still putting art on roundabouts.

We're going BROKE, and they are WAIVING SDC charges to BUILDERS.

Have no doubt: Bend is The Most Corrupt City In The U.S.A., and we are rapidly coming to the end of our RE lotto winnings. The Good Times are LONG OVER, and you are about to witness the most incredible financial implosion of a municipality EVER.

And All There Is To Do, Is Stand Back And Witness The Horror.

598 comments:

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Anonymous said...

I think its a good thing to have information, and thus I'm against allowing the 'nofollow' be the default.

*

That said, you all know that the BEND BULLETIN doesn't run in NO-FOLLOW mode by default, cuz that is GOOD INFO.

tim said...

Bend and its sister cities (Atlantic City, NJ and St George, UT) featured in this article...

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Home-prices-now-undervalued-economists/story.aspx?guid={E5CF55AB-4E86-4D86-B888-4EAFF46B4B97}

Anonymous said...

You think BEND has it tough? Here's your feeder market: http://flippersintrouble.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

Bend and its sister cities (Atlantic City, NJ and St George, UT) featured in this article...

*

Yep, there are two story's running all over the world right now.

1.) Bend has the best and most snow in the world, and the nicest people who will go out and play with tourists.

2.) Bend(Sisters) is now the deal of a lifetime.

Now who in the fucking earth would be issuing these press releases???

My guess is that is our old friends at Bends own COVA doing this at taxpayer expense.

The best part is they have learned, now all the press release say "anonymous" for author.

Anonymous said...

Haven't you heard? Bend is the ASPEN of the west! Real Estate is a steal in Bend! Buy, and buy now before everyone finds out!!!

Anonymous said...

This one just came out and I saw it this AM picked up by Australia, from prlog.com, all one has to do is back-track to COVA, this one came from our own NWXC, aka Brooks, aka boss-hogg-hollern.

Bend, Oregon’S Northwest Crossing Wins Buildernews’ Spirit Of The West Awards
Bend, Oregon neighborhood’s mixed-use aspects and focus on true community wins annual award


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
PRLog (Press Release) – Dec 03, 2008 – Bend, OR -- NorthWest Crossing was included in BUILDERnews Magazine’s 2008 Spirit of the West awards, an annual program that celebrates innovation by builders, developers and architects. Selected companies reflect the very best in design and vision, and have emerged as leaders in their fields. Winners are featured in the December issue of the publication.

“NorthWest Crossing has always focused on building a true community, not just rows of houses,” said David Ford, general manager for the Bend, Oregon neighborhood. “Our commitment to building a mixed-use, traditional neighborhood based on the principles of new urbanism helped us to earn this recognition from one of the nation’s leading industry magazines.”

A total of six companies were recognized in this year’s program, including three architects and two individual homes. NorthWest Crossing was the only neighborhood recognized in the 2008 program.

BUILDERnews cited that one of the “winning aspects for NorthWest Crossing is the built-in aspect to promote a better community.” Things such as publically owned parks and streets, homes with inviting front porches and wide sidewalks to promote neighborly interaction were mentioned as some of the ways NorthWest Crossing has worked to achieve this goal.

More information about the Spirit of the West award winners may be viewed in the electronic version of the magazine, by visiting BNmag.com.

About NorthWest Crossing
NorthWest Crossing is a mixed-use community on Bend’s west side which has won several national awards for its green building practices, as well as receiving the PCBC’s 2008 Gold Nugget Award of Merit for Master-Planned Community of the Year, Urban Land Institute’s 2007 “Development of Excellence” award and Cottage Living magazine’s 2008 Top Cottage Neighborhoods. West Bend Property Company LLC, a partnership of Brooks Resources Corporation and Tennant Family Limited Partnership, is developing the community. Both companies, based in Bend, have solid histories of commitment to thoughtful, quality real estate developments in Central Oregon. Their goal of creating a livable and sustainable community at NorthWest Crossing is rooted in their understanding and respect for the true essence of Bend and the Central Oregon lifestyle. http://www.northwestcrossing.com

About BUILDERnews magazine
A publication of PNW Publishing Inc. in Vancouver, Wash., BUILDERnews magazine is a national building trade magazine covering both residential and Mixed-Use/Multifamily construction. Its readers are top executives at established construction, design and engineering firms, as well as suppliers who look to BN magazine for national news, facts, and business information that speaks to the core issues affecting their businesses. For more information visit BNmag.com

Contact:
David Ford
NorthWest Crossing
Bend, OR
541-312-6473
dford@northwestcrossing.com

Anonymous said...

Tim,

This ain't 'good news' for Bend, this is very bad news. Perhaps in the future when you post a link, you might mention if the link is PR crap, or a real fucking story.

... BEND IS STILL MOST OVER-VALUED IN USA ... who would have guessed??

The quarterly report from Global Insight and National City Bank compares observed home prices with fundamental values based on differences in population density, relative income levels, interest rates, and historically observed market premiums or discounts.
According to the Global Insight report, only three metro areas are extremely overvalued: Atlantic City, N.J., Bend, Ore., and St. George, Utah. In 2005, 52 metro areas were deemed to be extremely overvalued.
Home prices fell more than 10% in nine metro areas in central California during the third quarter, Global Insight said. Prices in Merced, Stockton and Modesto are down more than 50% from their peak, while 26 other cities in California, Nevada and Florida are down more than 30%, they said. End of Story

tim said...

>>This ain't 'good news' for Bend, this is very bad news. Perhaps in the future when you post a link, you might mention if the link is PR crap, or a real fucking story.

And spoil the thrill of opening the story to see what wonderful prize is inside. You know I'm more subtle than that.

I have to have some fun here, or it's not worth coming. :-)

Bewert said...

Yep, we're tied for #1 in overvaluation, at 43%. Here is the data. See page 19. Our medians should be $157,800 to be fairly valued, according to Nat City.

Bewert said...

Re: Homer's hero

###

Note this sentence: "Frey says a more reasonable, albeit unpopular, solution would be for the government -- that is, taxpayers -- to ante up another $500 billion to buy all of the troubled loans from mortgage-backed securities pools..."

So why is the bailout costing somewhere between $3 and $8 trillion?

Because the mortgages aren't the real problem--the CDS's are.

For the last few years BushCo's regulators (as well as Geitner) have kept saying the banks are big boys and can handle the risk, so no need to regulate.

Now, after the bankers have dealt themselves billions in bonuses based on high returns from CDS's and other derivatives from securitized debt, the palace is crashing and they are being bailed out.

It's the biggest transfer of wealth in history--while the middle class gets poorer the rich bankers get bailed out.

Quimby said...

>> "Frey says a more reasonable, albeit unpopular, solution would be for the government -- that is, taxpayers -- to ante up another $500 billion to buy all of the troubled loans from mortgage-backed securities pools..."

Yes Bruce, I do have to admit that he is off his rocker with that statement.

What I do like about his stance is:

YOU MAKE YOUR BED AND LIE IN IT!

What part of a signed contract (agreement) don't you people understand?

Anonymous said...

Yep, we're tied for #1 in overvaluation, at 43%. Here is the data. See page 19. Our medians should be $157,800 to be fairly valued, according to Nat City.

*

I agree with $160k as a low, but there will be an over-correction, it will go lower.

Lastly, this shit about Bend being most over-valued is another reason you folks that want to buy, better do so, eventually the writing will be on the wall, and nobody will loan for Bend.

WSJ just had a news-release out how fan&fred will be doing 4.5% loans, should be interesting if it happens, and if they'll loan on Bend even close to the current over-valuations.

Anonymous said...

Another 'teaser' is sent out to make folks feel good. Yes, the US Gov needs a new loan company that is not afraid to loan, but Fred & Fan should have been allowed to BK. Thus they're really NOT part of the solution, more than likely this is PR being used to justify keeping them fed.

Who wouldn't want all their outstanding loans dropped to 4.5% fixed??? Are only deadbeats going to get this deal??

***

The Wall Street Journal

The Treasury Department is considering a plan to halt the slide in home prices that would lower mortgage rates using Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The plan could reduce rates for newly issued loans to as low as 4.5%.

Bewert said...

Re: YOU MAKE YOUR BED AND LIE IN IT!

What part of a signed contract (agreement) don't you people understand?

###

Quim, are you applying that to the CDS sellers and buyers, as well as the home mortgage holders?

Quimby said...

>> Quim, are you applying that to the CDS sellers and buyers, as well as the home mortgage holders?

Man, I don't know. That CDS stuff is beyond me, don't understand it. I'm mainly railing against re-writing contracts for people who made poor house buying decisions. And no, I don't feel sorry for them.

I'm an all around no-bailout guy for anyone, rich or poor.

Quimby said...

Everyone is playing FAST & LOOSE these days with their money and there is often a COST to taking on that risk!

Anonymous said...

A 43% overvaluation does NOT mean that prices should be $157k. You did the math as .57 x 276.9 = 157 which is "it's worth 43% less."

The math you should have done:
276.9 / 1.43 = 193.6 which is "it's priced 43% more than it's worth."

That being said, every other bubble area that started it's crash before us has gone UNDER their fair valuation, so Bend will drop below $193.6k.

Naples FL was more overvalued than us at one point, and 43% overvalued in Q3-2006. It's now 19.4% undervalued, and still going down.

For comparison, if Bend were 19.4% under valued our medians would be $156k. That's coming no problem by next year at this time.

Napa CA was 58% over in Q3-2005, and it's now -8%.

Sacramento was +55% Q3-2006 and is now -16.7%

Salinas CA was +72.4% Q2-2006 and is now -23.4%. It was still up 29.4 last year at this time.

Anonymous said...

>Lastly, this shit about Bend being most over-valued is another reason you folks that want to buy, better do so, eventually the writing will be on the wall, and nobody will loan for Bend.

Dumb advice. Fucking dumb.

Anonymous said...

Another one for the RIP board, not that anyone noticed they were gone:


http://www.oikoshomes.com/

And the house the developer lives in on Elgin just got it's NOD today.

Anonymous said...

Lastly, this shit about Bend being most over-valued is another reason you folks that want to buy, better do so, eventually the writing will be on the wall, and nobody will loan for Bend.

It's bad advice. As prices crash we will see more people underwater which will lead to more foreclosures. The banks are going to own a shitload of inventory. They don't want it. They will either loan or have to sell it goddamn cheap. If they loan it won't be for nearly as much as they currently are which means they will have to sell it to whoever they can that has a decent down payment and good credit.

If they don't loan we'll see medians below $100k. I don't see that happening. If it does that's fine. I'd rather pay cash for the house than take out a loan when it's still overvalued.

So you take Fuckhead's advice and buy now. In two years you lose your job and have to sell. Banks aren't loaning, so even though you put 30% down on the house the prices are down 70%. You hand the keys over to the bank. The next person comes in and buys your house for cash. Cash you would have had if you hadn't have bought now.

Fuckhead is wrong. Fuckhead is usually wrong.

Anonymous said...

money comes from 'investors' not banks,

if an 'origination' even say's "BEND" on it, it will be the 'kiss of death', thus no money for bend,

banks don't have a fucking thing to do with MTG's,

the way it was played the last ten years is that MTG companys sold the MTG's as an asset to investors.

anybody that uses the words 'banks' in the same sentence as 'inventory' is an idiot.

sure a few lending outfits like CACB are sitting on a ton of non-performing commercial, but those were fool plays, ...

almost all easy money since 1998 was done by the likes of county-wide, and friends, ... everybody got involved in lending for mtg's as you could slice & dice them, and resell the paper on wall st as 'AAA' cash, ... none of this had a fucking thing to do with banks,

Anonymous said...

Regarding 'math'.

I think the better math is that right now Bend is still 100% over-valued, which means a future 50% hair-cut, given were at $260K median, that means $130k.

National City just pulls #'s out of their ass like the rest of us, my gut tells me about $120k, and I think most of us old timers here have been saying this for a long time, ... Of course I see stability at $160-180K, but I see the low below $150k, stability being 4X income, and that here in town is $40k, and dropping like a rock.

Anonymous said...

Man, I don't know. That CDS stuff is beyond me, don't understand it.
- quim
*

I'll try to explain it.

The CDS is nothing more than an insurance policy. Let's say I package a dozen Bend $1M homes, that be $12M, and I want to sell insure that in order to call it a 'AAA' rated investment, then for a FEE, somebody would cover the PAPER, and say it was .25%-.5% not uncommon, so for $30k I got a policy, the person who wrote the policy is on the hook for $12M if my HOMES become worthless, the insurance simply comes out of the amount that I get for selling my paper.

WALL ST will NOT buy my $12M paper on these homes, unless its insured, that's how it MY paper gets its 'AAA' rating, which then makes the buyer comfy, and his 'investors' comfy.

Now the assumption was that NOTHING could possible ever go down, cuz as we all KNOW BEND RE only goes UP!!!

How BIG is the CDS play, well in the USA $100 TRILLION in the last ten years were written, I'll repeat one hundred trillion US DOLLARS, in the world the number is $500 TRILLION. Figure the commissions on all this insurance was 10%, so there was middle man that found a buyer for my deal and got $3k.

BERKSHIRE of Hathaway, aka BUFFET has made most of his money the last 10-20 years selling this insurance, basically pocketing CASH, BILLIONS of dollars, all on the assumption that NOTHING EVER GOES DOWN.

Well now we have the black-swan. It's estimated RIGHT NOW by the smart boyz, that 20% of the CDS's written are due for the down-side loss, that here in the USA is $20 TRILLION dollars.

Ok, to date we know uncle-sam has promised $8 TRILLION, that's still 1/3 of the amount due, the problem is if any of these policy's are NOT covered, then the WHOLE $500T world-wide implodes, that is 12X of the world GDP, and thus the end of the world,

Now NOTE that worldwide the WORLD has to come up with $100T, which is almost 2X of the world GDP.

If anyone doesn't understand the above, I'll try to simplify even more.



- fuckhead

Anonymous said...

What's even more interesting is even today city's all over the USA just like BEND are getting CASH by selling these types of policy's, mostly on interest-rate bets on the future.

It's an easy way to get $5M cash up-front, on the 'bet' that you know what the interest rates will be in 2015.

The call CDS which are a subset of 'derivatives', cuz they are derived from something else, these policy's themselves are then traded as 'AAA' paper later by other party's.

I liken this all selling PUT's on the stock market. A PUT is a bet that a stock will go down, most people WHO BUY PUT's lose their money, as short-sellers are statistically wrong. Thus if you SELL a PUT, you generally get to keep the money, statistically. Smart people SELL 'covered' puts, so that in the event they're wrong, the loss can be mitigated. The world wide market for PUT's is only in the BILLION's and thus one cannot get BUFFET-BERKSHIRE rich playing the covered-put-game.

The CDS was invented to create an environment just like SELLING-PUT's, but now the market is $500Trillion world wide, and people like BUFFET got $500B over the last ten years selling the insurance on the assumption they would never pay-out, that is there would be NO CLAIMS.

However we have had a black-swan, everybody and his dog got into the game, DOG-SHIT got marked up on paper and resold on wall-st as 'AAA'.

On the $500B so made on selling these insurance policy's vast $50B in commission was netted by your favorite brokerage houses, like Goldman-Sachs, AIG, ... Lehman.

The reason that LEHMAN hurt the market so bad, was that they couldn't pay on the CDS bets that they had written policy's for, neither can AIG, and thats where we're at today, using US government to 'COVER' all the bad debts.

The trouble is that given the size of the bad bets exceeds the world GDP, that honestly folks like Jim Rogers see the END of the Economy as we know it.

I noted that tuesday nov 25,2008 WSJ had an article called 'new banks', that not since alex-hamilton created the first US bank, are we in as much as a pickle as now, even Roger's says that the US dollar is finished, and that the US must start over like they did in 1791, 1841, and after the civil-war,

The USA has a long history of making its money worthless, goes back to HAMILTON and his philosophy that those who own the most real-estate get to control the banks.

Bewert said...

Re: The reason that LEHMAN hurt the market so bad, was that they couldn't pay on the CDS bets that they had written policy's for, neither can AIG, and thats where we're at today, using US government to 'COVER' all the bad debts.

The trouble is that given the size of the bad bets exceeds the world GDP, that honestly folks like Jim Rogers see the END of the Economy as we know it.

###

Good explanation.

Here is an even better one: http://www.thislife.org/extras/radio/355_transcript.pdf

You can buy the podcast for a buck. Probably the best buck you'll ever spend. Or you can listen to it online. Here is the source: http://www.thislife.org/radio_episode.aspx?episode=355

Of all the explanations I've heard (and I have a finance background and actually understand this stuff) this NPR episode is by far the best for the layman.

If I could put this mess into a 30 second elevator speech, it would go something like this:

"Millions of iffy mortgages, etc. were made to feed a institutional funding scheme that was supposed to provide higher yields. These mortgages were bundled into huge products, consisting of thousands of mortgages, or auto loans, or credit card balances, and they were then rated by agencies that had in intrinsic interest if giving them a high rating. This high rating allowed them to be sold to normally conservative institutions like pension funds, earning high fees to the banks that sold them.

Now this all could have been all right, without too much disruption if the underlying mortgages defaulted at times.

The real issue is that the Masters of the Universe figured out a way to create derivatives, pieces of contractual paper with a value tied to an actual financial instrument, based on the value of these bundled mortgages. And sold each other insurance against the default of said mortgages. This became a market of hundreds of trillions of dollars in less than ten years. A market based entirely on financial legerdemain, not anything actually produced.

These were bets on interest rates and default rates. Without any reserve required.

And all along the Fed, the Treasury, etc. said that the big boys doing these complicated things were smart and could take the risk. They would never require a bailout. That's why they were paying out billions in bonuses.

And now they have their snouts buried deeper into the public trough than anyone who ever preceded them.

Fuck them. They don't actually produce anything. Let them go BK, and we'll figure out how to keep actually producing stuff.

Unfortunately, they are being bailed out with trillions of taxpayer dollars."

OK, maybe a 6o second elevator rant.

Bewert said...

The key thing to understand is that the mortgage security market is a half-trillion, while the derivative/paper on said mortgage securities market is multiple trillions.

Trillions based on paper, not actual produced goods.

Anonymous said...

The key thing to remember is the the USA has written an outstanding insurance for $100 Trillion, and that the US GDP is $13 Trillion.

Yes, MTG is just a percentage of total CDS coverage, but so fucking what, it doesn't mean that all the obligations aren't due.

MTG CDS is just the tip of the FUCKING CDS iceberg that is going to BK the USA.

Anonymous said...

http://tinyurl.com/5p4tbd

Intelligent life found in Bend, who would have guessed???

Anonymous said...

Two suicides in the woods off century drive on the way to MT-B in two weeks.

Now it isn't just developer suicides that the cop's and media are keeping secret, young kids coming to Bend to live in their rigs are going up in the mtn's and offing themselves and not a fucking peep.

Bewert said...

What is especially funny for those who claim to be fiscally responsible Republicans must the the secret hold put on a bailout Inspector General.

Yep, you're party cares about where federal money goes, all right.

It all must go to connected folks with no oversight.

Anonymous said...

Good article in todays WSJ about how fucked google is we're talking like down 90% in revenue, and they're pulling the plug on everything across the board.

Expect to see AD's soon on blogspot.com ( about time ? ).

I know myself I used pay almost $10k/mo for ad's on google in say 2002, and now its like $20/mo, people simply are no longer clicking on the ad's, I knew that.

Also they have two tiers click by keyword, and click by context, the context was bullshit, and everyone has disabled that, and today nobody is click on keyword. Keyword is when you put in an explicit keyword, and an ad pop's up based on that keyword, and they click on the ad. Context is if their current content ( say this blog ) matches your website, then your ad comes up, complete fucking bullshit.

Expect to see google down to below $50 very soon.

Sounds like they're pulling the plug on everything, gmail, google-earth, ... everything.

The google party is over.

Anonymous said...

BP,

Where is your city hall report for tonight?, I saw you there.

Quimby said...

>> I know myself I used pay almost $10k/mo for ad's on google in say 2002, and now its like $20/mo, people simply are no longer clicking on the ad's, I knew that.

AdBlockPlus...haven't seen an ad in YEARS.

Anonymous said...

What's up with some suicides of non-developer types that hasn't hit the news. How did you hear?

tim said...

I just read the google article in WSJ, and it doesn't sound anything like that. 90% down in revenue No. Pulling the plug on gmail and google earth? No.

IHateToBurstYourBubble said...

OIKOS HOMES
Updated October 2008

Due to market conditions, Oikos Homes is in the process of winding down operations. Our lenders for the neighborhoods at Waverly, Gleneden, Oikos Homes at Lava Ridges, and Parkway Cottages have not renewed or extended their loan financing. The company can be reached at the contact information below.

IHateToBurstYourBubble said...

Our lenders for the neighborhoods at Waverly, Gleneden, Oikos Homes at Lava Ridges, and Parkway Cottages have not renewed or extended their loan financing...

ie: Bends Newest Meth Dealer Den! Welcome Meth Heads!

IHateToBurstYourBubble said...


Sounds like they're pulling the plug on everything, gmail, google-earth, ... everything.


Hmmmm... I don't know. Look at Google's financials, they are one of the most financially conservative companies on Earth. Them and Qualcomm.

IHateToBurstYourBubble said...

For comparison, if Bend were 19.4% under valued our medians would be $156k. That's coming no problem by next year at this time.

Napa CA was 58% over in Q3-2005, and it's now -8%.

Sacramento was +55% Q3-2006 and is now -16.7%

Salinas CA was +72.4% Q2-2006 and is now -23.4%. It was still up 29.4 last year at this time.


Yeah, see this is where we're screwed. This Nat City stuff has a bit of a feedback component to it, and as things went berzerk on the upside, they in turn had to raise their "fair value" bell curve average.

We're going to see Nat City start to LOWER what they define as fair value when it becomes clear that the last 10 years were an anomaly.

$195K "fair value" in Bend will start looking pretty stupid when we're at $120K. This rationale will go for everyone. EVERYTHING will be so far to the left on the bell curve of fair value, that they will simply be forced to lower their Grand Idea of What "Median" means.

$120K WILL be undervalued in bend for awhile.... then they'll start lowering fair value till it hits $120K & we're All Good Again.

Anonymous said...

Read the fucking WSJ article from yesterday's paper homer.

Yesterday's 'financials' don't matter, the trend line for google revenue is targetted for zero in a few years. They're plummeting.

It's all getting shutdown, and all the graphs were in the WSJ yesterday.

'Conservative', yeh like paying for all medical, 3 meals day, health club, letting people work on anything they want, ... Google is what it was, but no more. The austere years have arrived.

I know your being 'sarcastic' with Qualcomm, they were the love-canal of the DOT-COM, and went into the toilet.

I still bet you we see $50 google in a year, and it will never come back.

The issue is they had, had 100% or more growth in revenue from 1996(?) to 2006, and now its tiny. There growth is OVER. What's worse for ALL their investing 98% of revenue still comes from fucking google-search clicks, which is dying 50%/mo.

Anonymous said...

Our lenders for the neighborhoods at Waverly, Gleneden, Oikos Homes at Lava Ridges, and Parkway Cottages have not renewed or extended their loan financing.

*

"WHAT YOU SAY BITCH"?? "YOU IN BEND-ORYGUN", and YOU WANT US TO INCREASE OUR LOSS???

Who would have guessed that NOBODY would want to loan to BEND when this town went into the toilet???

Anonymous said...

Let's remember also, this is what happened to Tetherow, their finance ( lender ) was terminated, they shopped , and plowed through 3 lenders before PAPE bailed them out last year, and then he pulled the plug.

Once you can't get CORP money, then you go after PRIVATE money, today NOT even private money will loan on BEND.

Anonymous said...

Today from Taiwan News ... You got to Give MT-B PR&MARKETING CREDIT, they're getting the fucking word out about all the fucking snow on MT-B. This is the FIRST-TIME I have seen a 'name' on this press-release. Somebody follow this name.

Skiing at Mount Bachelor, Oregon
By WHITNEY MALKIN
Associated Press
2008-12-04 07:21 AM

Deep powder is standard issue at Mount Bachelor, a West Coast favorite that averages 400 inches (1,000 centimeters) of snow per season, just 20 miles (32 kilometers) from the outdoors haven of Bend, Oregon.

Framed by towering ponderosas and crackling pines, Bend is home to world-class cyclists, triathletes, kayakers and rock climbers.

The local population has quadrupled in the past 20 years, but the town's core of 70,000 are friendly and eager to get outside and play.

Named one of the five best little ski towns in America by Travel + Leisure magazine's December issue, and one of Outside magazine's best towns last year, Bend is surrounded by 2 million acres (809,390 hectares) of national forest, roaring rivers and of course, the Cascade Mountains.

A logging town that hasn't forgotten its roots, the earthy, laid-back community has Craftsman-style architecture, a buzzing downtown and an exceptional culinary scene.

More than half of the people here have a dog, and you're likely to see Subarus with roof racks crowding nearly every parking lot in town.

On the slopes, there are 10 lifts, several terrain parks, more than 31 miles (50 kilometers) of Nordic trails, and a tubing hill.

At a little over 9,000 feet (2,740 meters), this is a mountain known for exceptionally long seasons that stretch into May. It's also a dormant volcano that regularly breathes steam through tiny cracks. The vents are so small, you ski right over them, but the heat melts snow around the crevices, which can be seen if you happen to look.

Lift tickets are $58 ($69 on Saturdays and on holidays) for adults and $14 to $17 for Nordic skiing.

On the mountain's cloudy days, skiers should try the Outback chair, on the northwest shoulder of the mountain, where conditions are often pristine and runs feature the best moguls.

Boarders will likely feel at home in the Superpipe, which has been home to the Chevy Truck US Snowboard Grand Prix and 2006 Olympic Qualifier.

Both boarders and skiers alike should hit up the Summit chair on clear days . Bombing down the longest run on the mountain is a 3,365-foot (1,026-meter) straight shot with breathtaking views that make the chilly ride to the top well worth it.

If you get hungry, try the mid-mountain Pine Marten Lodge's Scapolo's for lunch, and at the end of the day, the Clearing Rock Bar in the West Village Lodge.

Back in town, there are a lot of choices.

With more than six homegrown breweries, nightlife in this town is defined by grabbing a pint and warming up by the fire. Check out Deschutes Brewery, 1044 Bond St., which features more than 18 taps. Be sure to try Jubelale, a seasonal winter ale brewed for just a few months each year during the holiday season.

But if you tire of long lines at Deschutes, head down the street to the Silver Moon Brewing, 24 NW Greenwood Ave., which offers the cheapest craft brews in town at $3.

For dinner, wander downtown to grab a bite at Merenda, 900 NW Wall St., for tapas-style offerings of small plates and an extensive wine bar.

Other surefire bets are Zydeco, 185 SE Third St., where fresh local ingredients, northwest flare and Cajun spice collide, and The Decoy Bar and Grill, 1051 Bond St., a newcomer that's turning heads.

For meals that are easier on the wallet, check out Parilla Grill, 635 NW 14th St., and order the fish tacos, made with fresh snapper, with the "rerecommendations." The homemade corn salsa, cheese, and special sauce make this a meal to remember.

After the sun goes down, there's still plenty to keep you busy.

Head to McMenamin's Old St. Francis, 700 NW Bond St., a Catholic school turned hotel (doubles from $104). In addition to a billiards room, Turkish soaking bath and cigar bar, the downtown hotspot is home to concerts and shows $3 movies in a theater filled with couches. The staff will deliver pizza and beer right to your seat during the show.

http://www.wanderlusttours.com

http://www.seventhmountain.com

http://www.sunriver-resort.com

Save on gas and grab the mountain's Super Shuttle ($7 one way), which leaves almost every hour from the Bend Park-N-Ride on the corner of Simpson and Colorado.

Before you go, don't forget to grab the most important meal of the day. Locals suggest the Victorian Cafe, 1404 NW Galveston Ave., for eggs Benedict and Bloody Marys that draw crowds each weekend.

For a breakfast on the go, try Nancy P's Baking Company, 1054 NW Milwaukie Ave., home of killer marionberry scones and a yogurt parfait that will keep you full until nightfall.

If some of your crew is staying in town, stop by the Old Mill District, the former site of the Brooks-Scanlon Mill, now a vibrant 49-store shopping complex in the heart of Bend's west side.

Farther south you'll find Factory Outlets, 61334 S. Highway 97, where bargain-hunters can grab deals from Oregon-based Columbia Sportswear and Nike.

Anonymous said...

What's up with some suicides of non-developer types that hasn't hit the news. How did you hear?

*

I go mtn-biking everyday.

Kids living in their trucks have been living in the shelters up off century in the last few weeks.

Basically they setup the shelter like home, and leave their rig nearby and go off in the woods and off themselves.

Too bad really, a lot of these people could have been helped.

I think the 'real' problem is they come to BEND, cuz they believe the PR&MARKETING, and BEND is a fucking COLD town, I'm talking COUGAR-COLD.

It's not real safe being one of Bend's 5,000+ homeless, sleeping by the fire near Walmart with the bro's, so the newbies hear about the shelters full of firewood, and go live in them, but I think the isolation effects them. Youngsters should be out chasing pussy, not living like hermits.

Bend is a cold town, most women here will not give you the time of day, unless you got gold jewelery hanging from your DICK. In Bend you got drive the HUMMER, and act like the rich guy hanging at Martini bar to get pussy. Back in the day kids would come here and mtn-bike, snow-board, climb at smith, the people coming now are looking for mecca, but finding depression.

I don't know what to tell you about ALL the fucking suicides.

What I do know is that its an OFFICE SORE & BULL decision not to report them.

If you be HBM and want to do a story, contact the local USFS office and talk to the admin, and have them give you the lowdown, and I know their is a search going on right now for a new case.

"THE FUCKING NEWS, YES RIGHT, WAIT UNTIL THE FUCKING NEWS REPORTS ANYTHING IN THIS TOWN"

Anonymous said...

I just read the google article in WSJ, and it doesn't sound anything like that. 90% down in revenue No. Pulling the plug on gmail and google earth? No.

*

Well its all going to change.

They're going to try and spin google-earth off, and your going to see ad's on the blogger.

Perhaps you didn't see the story in the WSJ as negative as I did, but my reading is that 'everything is going to change'.

Did you see the graph on revenue growth? It's a run to zero.

The growth days of google is over, and all new projects are over.

Perhaps your not a fucking TECH GUY TIM, I know you said your journalism.

BUT ITS over, if gmail, google-earth, ... et-al don't make a nickle it means NO MORE FUCKING development, which is the kiss of death for software.

The entire paradigm of FREE ENDLESS SOFTWARE and service is OVER.

This is a BIG story TIM, go back and read it, if you don't see what I see, maybe its because you didn't spend 40+ years working in this shit.

tim said...

I'm not disagreeing with your Google projections, I just wanted to clarify that what has happened so far is:

1) Growth slowing (a lot). But still growth of 30%. Was almost 100% growth in '05.
2) Chopping pet projects, irritating some of the big talent.
3) Reduction in the benefits. In my opinion, Google was a little short-sited to be over-the-top on their benefits. Programmers HATE having benefits cut. They like to feel pampered.
4) Acknowledgment of the need to make money. Google Finance recently got ads, other places will.
5) Dramatic slowdown in hiring and server farm building.

Yes, this is "gearing" down. And yes, it's a big deal.

LavaBear said...

>>>Yes, this is "gearing" down. And yes, it's a big deal.

I think it's called "growing up". They've been teenagers blowing mom and dad's cash on stupid shit. Time to begin to try and act like adults.

Quimby said...

>> Whitney Malkin

http://www.facebook.com/people/Whitney-Malkin/11500312

Just another local PR Bunny I suspect

Quimby said...

http://center.spoke.com/info/pDLLLKj/WhitneyMalkin

Looks like she used to (or still does) work for the Eugene Register Guard.

Appears to be an AP writer now.

tim said...

>>I think it's called "growing up". They've been teenagers blowing mom and dad's cash on stupid shit. Time to begin to try and act like adults.

They were trying everything in a desperate attempt to find something that would make money besides online ads. They failed miserably, and now we're going into what is obviously a terrible ad time.

Anonymous said...

Yes, this is "gearing" down. And yes, it's a big deal.

*

It's a big deal!

I have seen my own ad's go from $10k/mo to today about $20/mo.

Like 'quim' I think posted above, he has a blocker, I myself never click on the things.

If my ad costs to google are down 99.99% over the past 5+ years, I'm sure others are also.

Another stat your ignoring is besides the BILLIONS they have spent on R&D, still 98% of their revenue comes from google-search clicks, fucking VERY FUCKING SAD!!!!!!

I love google too TT, and its obvious you want to defend them, but knowing what I do about how much their ad revenue has dropped in the last five years, I'm really quite surprise they didn't implode several years ago.

Like Buffet say's when the tide goes out you get too see who is naked, and Google has been naked for years.

Anonymous said...

They were trying everything in a desperate attempt to find something that would make money besides online ads. They failed miserably, and now we're going into what is obviously a terrible ad time.

*

Exactly!!!! and despite spending billions they're still 98% dependent on those ad's, and +90% of them no longer work, the real trouble is google has fucked its self with its own give-aways, nobody clicks on ad's because 'google shopping' finds the deals, if you click on ad's you pay a higher price.

The glory days for ads was 2002->2004, since then all down hill.

I repeat the ALARMING stat here is that 98% of all their revenue comes from a dying biz.


They got to something, me suspect that HOMER will soon be paying $20/mo for his BB2!!!

Anonymous said...

http://center.spoke.com/info/pDLLLKj/WhitneyMalkin

Looks like she used to (or still does) work for the Eugene Register Guard.

Appears to be an AP writer now.

*

it's a very interesting article, and everybody all over the world has picked it up, and its all over the map, I mean it mentions everything about BEND, not just the 365 days of SUN&SNOW!!!!

I'll be you guys BIG-TIME that she got one of those FREE BEND JUNKETS paid for by the city, and that's what this is all about.

Anonymous said...

One last comment for anybody interested in Cascade HWY suicides.

On Dec 1, 2008, the NW-USFS finally got around and gated all access roads, so now that these home-less kids can't drive to the shelters, they'll no longer be going back there.

Once again problem solved.

My guess is that once xc-country and snow mobile opens for the 'snow' that will come post xmas, they'll start finding bodies. The FS fears this, and is working hard to find them early, but best plans always fail.

Anonymous said...

Google is Fucked.

Perhaps this is the 'Change' that Obama had in mind??

Anonymous said...

Read your history books friends the last real turmoil was the civil war days. Prepare.

IHateToBurstYourBubble said...

Bend is surrounded by 2 million acres (809,390 hectares)...

That's a shitload of Hispanics.

IHateToBurstYourBubble said...

U.S. job losses worst since 1974 as downturn deepens

By Alister Bull Alister Bull 31 mins ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. employers axed payrolls by 533,000 jobs in November, the most in 34 years and far more than expected, government data on Friday showed, as the year-old recession hammered every corner of the U.S. economy.

U.S. stock markets opened lower, oil prices and the dollar weakened and U.S. government bond prices rallied as the data showed the U.S. downturn was deepening.

"You can't get much uglier than this. The economy has just collapsed, and has gone into a free fall," said Richard Yamarone, chief economist at Argus Research in New York.

The Labor Department said the unemployment rate rose to 6.7 percent last month, the highest since 1993, from 6.5 percent in October. It would have been even higher except for an exodus of Americans who became discouraged in their search for work and left the labor force.

"This is a clear employment blowout. Firms are reacting as dramatically as they can to make sure they have cost structures they can survive the recession," said Joel Naroff, president of Naroff Economic Advisors in Holland, Pennsylvania.

The dismal data sparked calls for aggressive government action to shore up an economy that appears to be facing its deepest downturn since the early 1980s.

"This jobs picture painted today is staggering, and it should be all the evidence Washington needs to act swiftly and decisively to shore up this economy," said Sen. Charles Schumer, a New York Democrat who chairs the congressional Joint Economic Committee.

Broadening economic weakness has already prompted the U.S. Federal Reserve to dramatically lower interest rates to 1 percent and it is expected to trim its benchmark federal funds target toward zero later this month and next, while also exploring other unconventional measures to support growth.

A worldwide credit crisis sparked by mounting defaults on U.S. mortgages has pushed economies around the globe into or toward recession. Canada said earlier on Friday its economy shed 70,600 jobs in November, the most since June 1982.

U.S. job losses in November were the steepest since December 1974, when 602,000 jobs were shed, and were much worse than the consensus on Wall Street for a 340,000 reduction.

In addition, job losses in recent months turned out to be worse than previously reported. October's loss was revised to show a cut of 320,000, originally given as a 240,000 loss, while September's drop was revised to 403,000 from 284,000.

That meant 199,000 more jobs were lost in September and October than previously thought and the total reduction in U.S. nonfarm payrolls for the last three months was 1.256 million, with almost 2 million shed in the year so far.

"It's just a disaster," said Stephen Stanley, chief U.S. economist at RBS Greenwich in Greenwich, Conn.

Service-providing businesses alone shed 370,000 jobs in November, or two-thirds of the overall job declines, following a loss of 153,000 jobs the month before.

That meant labor market weakness has now shifted over from the goods-producing sectors of the economy to the far more important services sector, which delivers almost 80 percent of U.S. output.

Employment in manufacturing dropped by 85,000, while construction payrolls shrank by 82,000 jobs. Construction employment has declined for 17 straight months, and factory jobs have declined 29 straight months.

The length of the workweek slipped to 33.5 hours, the shortest since records began in 1964, a Labor Department official said. The drop in the workweek could point to further job losses ahead as business cut back sharply on production.

IHateToBurstYourBubble said...

The Labor Department said the unemployment rate rose to 6.7 percent last month, the highest since 1993, from 6.5 percent in October. It would have been even higher except for an exodus of Americans who became discouraged in their search for work and left the labor force.


I have never understood what this means. "Left the labor force"? What'd they do? Retire to Hawaii?

IHateToBurstYourBubble said...

Home loan troubles break records again

Delinquencies, foreclosures rise to 10 percent of US home loans in third quarter

* Alan Zibel, AP Real Estate Writer
* Friday December 5, 2008, 10:12 am EST

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A record one in 10 American homeowners with a mortgage were either at least a month behind on their payments or in foreclosure at the end of September as the source of housing market pressure shifted to the crumbling U.S. economy.

The Mortgage Bankers Association said Friday the percentage of loans at least a month overdue or in foreclosure was up from 9.2 percent in the April-June quarter, and up from 7.3 percent a year earlier.

Distress in the home loan market started about two years ago as increasing numbers of adjustable-rate loans reset to higher interest rates. But the latest wave of delinquencies is coming from the surge in unemployment.

Employers slashed 533,000 jobs in November, the most in 34 years, catapulting the unemployment rate to 6.7 percent, the Labor Department said Friday.

"Now it's a case of job losses hitting more across the board," Jay Brinkmann, chief economist of the Mortgage Bankers Association.

The U.S. tipped into recession last December, a panel of experts declared earlier this week. Since the start of the recession, the economy has lost 1.9 million jobs.

Job losses are already having an impact in rising delinquency rates for traditional 30-year fixed rate loans made to borrowers with strong credit. Total delinquencies on those loans rose to 3.35 percent in September from 3.07 percent at the end of June, the Mortgage Bankers Association said.

There were some modest signs of stabilization. The number of loans that entered the foreclosure process totaled 1.07 percent of all loans in the third quarter, flat from the second quarter.

Though that number likely reflects changes in state laws that delay or extend the foreclosure process and efforts to work out or modify loans that could still fall back into foreclosure.

IHateToBurstYourBubble said...

Remember when they said Sub Prime would be No Big Deal, cuz it amounted to such a small percentage of the mortgage market? yeah.

See, that's LINEAR THINKING.

This thing ain't LINEAR. It's a horribly vicious and progressive CLUSTERFUCK. See, CLUSTERFUCK THINKING is why this will be so much worse than anyone thought possible.

Under a CLUSTERFUCK REGIME, The Poor Subprimers DIE, the lower middle class (DRW) gets the fucking AIDS, the middle class gets EBOLA, and the upper crust gets SYPHILLIS with a side LYME DISEASE.

Everyone gets fucked, HARD. This thing ain't near over.

Anonymous said...

It would have been even higher except for an exodus of Americans who became discouraged in their search for work and left the labor force.

*

You know what it means HOMER, they only count those 'looking for work', and those who have applied for 'unemployment', and must sign paper that they're looking for work.

The 'homeless' are not counted as 'looking for work', these people have become 'unemployable', and thus have voluntarily 'left the labor force'.

In Bend if we counted our homeless as unemployed we would be up over 20% well over the +10% definition of a 'depression'.

Anonymous said...

I have never understood what this means. "Left the labor force"? What'd they do? Retire to Hawaii?

*

Nope, it means they drove their pickup to Bend, Oregon.

The best place in the USA to sit around a fire at night with your bro's.

Anonymous said...

"The economy has just collapsed, and has gone into a free fall."

...

US job losses worst in 35 years
November's job losses were the steepest since December 1974, when 602,000 jobs were shed [AFP]

US employers axed 533,000 jobs in November, the largest cut for more than 34 years, US government data has shown.

The US labour department said that the unemployment rate rose to 6.7 per cent last month, compared with 6.5 per cent in October.

Dana Perino, a White House spokesperson, said in a statement following the release of the unemployment statistics on Friday: "We're very concerned that the housing and credit problems are leading to significant job losses in the economy.

"We need to focus on the causes of the economic downturn in order to reverse this trend in job creation. We intend to continue our aggressive efforts to restore health to our credit and housing markets," she said.

After the figures were released, Barack Obama, the US president-elect, called for "urgent" measures to put people back to work and to stimulate the economy.

"There are not quick or easy fixes to this crisis, which has been many years in the making, and it's likely to get worse before it gets better," he said.

"But now is the time to respond with urgent resolve to put people back to work and get our economy moving again.

"The 533,000 jobs lost last month - the worst job loss in 34 years - is more than a dramatic reflection of the growing economic crisis we face.

"Each of those lost jobs represents a personal crisis for a family somewhere in America."

Oil prices and the dollar weakened, and US treasury bond prices rallied after the data was released.

Shock stats

November's job losses were the steepest since December 1974, when 602,000 jobs were shed.

October's loss was also revised to show a cut of 320,000 - originally given as a 240,000 loss - while September's drop was revised to 403,000 from 284,000.

The total reduction in US non-farm payrolls for the past three months was 1.256m, with almost two million lost in the year so far.

Service-providing businesses shed 370,000, or two-thirds, of the total number of jobs axed in November, after a loss of 153,000 jobs in October.

The unemployment figures show that labour market weaknesses have shifted over from the goods-producing sectors of the economy to the services sector, which delivers almost 80 per cent of US output.

Richard Yamarone, chief economist at Argus Research in New York, said: "The economy has just collapsed, and has gone into a free fall."

Joel Naroff, president of Naroff Economic Advisors in Holland, said: "This is a clear employment blowout.

"Firms are reacting as dramatically as they can to make sure they have cost structures they can survive the recession we are in."

Anonymous said...

HOLLY SHEET BUSH 'W' has apologized today for destroying the USA. Me so sorry, I fucked you.

...

Bush regrets Iraq war intelligence
The US has lost more than 4,200 soldiers in Iraq since the war began in 2003 [GETTY]

George Bush, the US president, has said that he came to office "unprepared for war" and that his "biggest regret" is his country's "intelligence failure" on Iraq.

In an interview with ABC television's "World News Tonight", Bush also said he was "sorry" that the global economic meltdown was taking place and predicted that he would leave office on January 20 with his "head held high".

Bush has had record-low approval ratings after the botched government response to Hurricane Katrina in 2005 and in the wake of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as the world financial crisis.

"The biggest regret of all the presidency has to have been the intelligence failure in Iraq," Bush said 50 days before president-elect Barack Obama's inauguration.

"I wish the intelligence had been different."

But Bush refused to say whether he would have ordered the March 2003 invasion if he had known Iraqi's former leader, Saddam Hussein, did not have weapons of mass destruction, calling it "an interesting question".

'Do-over'

"That is a do-over that I can't do. It's hard for me to speculate," said Bush, who declared as recently as last week that Saddam's ouster was "the right decision then - and it is the right decision today".

Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians and more than 4,200 US troops have died in Iraq since Bush launched the war.

A months-long public campaign centered on the grounds - later proved false - that Saddam possessed weapons of mass destruction triggered the war.

"A lot of people put their reputations on the line and said the weapons of mass destruction is a reason to remove Saddam Hussein. It wasn't just people in my administration," Bush told ABC.

Asked what his greatest accomplishment was, Bush replied: "I keep recognising we're in a war against ideological thugs and keeping America safe."

Bush said he was sorry for the economic woes that have seen US firms failing [EPA]
Asked what he was most unprepared for when he took office in January 2001, Bush replied: "I think I was unprepared for war. In other words, I didn't campaign and say, 'Please vote for me, I'll be able to handle an attack.'"

"I didn't anticipate war. Presidents - one of the things about the modern presidency is that the unexpected will happen," he said.

Bush, whose administration recently accepted a formal timeline for withdrawing from Iraq, also stood fast behind his refusal for years to set a pull-out timetable.

"It would have compromised the principle that when you put kids into harm's way, you go in to win," he said.

'I am sorry'

Asked about the global economic crisis, Bush declared "I'm sorry it's happening, of course," but rejected any effort to blame his administration for inaction in the face of growing concerns.

"I'm the president during this period of time, but I think when the history of this period is written, people will realize a lot of the decisions that were made on Wall Street took place over a decade or so," he said.

Bush also described much of his time in office as "joyful" even though "the president ends up carrying a lot of people's grief in his soul during a presidency".

"I don't feel joyful when somebody loses their life, nor do I feel joyful when somebody loses a job. That concerns me," he said.

"But the idea of being able to serve a nation you love has been joyful."

Asked what Americans would say when he left office, Bush replied: "I hope they feel that this is a guy that came, didn't sell his soul for politics, had to make some tough decisions, and did so in a principled way. I will leave the presidency with my head held high."

Anonymous said...

Barack Obama campaign raised nearly $1 billion, shattering records
Fundraising outpaced combined total of Bush and Kerry in 2004 election, records show

*

While the USA burns, the OR-BOMB-EO burns his cash.

Anonymous said...

He KUNT's think about this, ... Oil is heading to $25 a barrel, and our friends ( well bushes friends ), need at least $80/barrel to pencil their economys.

> It'll be Iran, Russia and Venezuela that need a bailout from the IMF
> if Oil doesn't rise soon.

I think we found the true reason for the economic downturn...


WW-III has started.

Anonymous said...

DOW has broken 8200, hello 1997 lows.

Quimby said...

Ad losses send industry into a tailspin

Drudge says "More than 30 daily newspapers up for sale; buyers scarce...."

Wonder if the Bull is for sale?

Anonymous said...

Everything is always for sale for the right price.

For now the BULL is fine, having just got $5M from the city for the land HOLLERN gave them for free.

That will tide them over.

Everyone that counts on AD DOLLARS is hurting and bad, this is why google who is 98% dependent on AD dollars is in trouble.

Had the BULL not sold the worthless land they got for free, they would be gone by now.

What is there burn rate? Then you can predict, they can't borrow, how long will the $5M last?? Do they have anything else to sell? The company that owns the BULL has like a dozen small rags in the PNW. The BULL is their biggest.

What about the fucking SORE? Will they survive?

The BULL got their bail-out from the city of Bend. Watch closely the city will most likely be sending more taxpayer dollars to the BULL.

Bewert said...

Re: record foreclosures

41 more NODs in Deschutes County so far in December, bringing the total this year through the 1700 barrier to 1732.

Anonymous said...

Bend only lives for Boss Hogg Hollern.

The BULL only exists to protect BHH.

If & when Brooks goes BK, then the BULL becomes irrelevant.

We already know that Brooks is dire collapse. Their 100's of LLC's in the area are laying people off. 100's of empty buildings. All dressed up to sell crap-shacks, but no buyers.

Watch closely the city of bend.

Almost all city's are now selling CDS's on future bets of interest rates, getting cash now, on bets later. Given human-see/human-do, Bend will follow this path. The last venue of easy money is CMO Muni's so in theory city's can cover these bets and write the insurance. Get cash today, to cover your friends at Brooks, Hap-Taylor, Compass, ...

Bend only exists to feed the Hogg's.

The BULL only exits to protect the hogg's from the masses.

Anonymous said...

Will the last person to leave Bend, please cover the city's debt.

Quimby said...

>> WW-III has started.

An interesting point. Do you think its possible that "some" of this mess was orchestrated to reign in oil prices and squash Russia/Middle East/Venezuela/China's rapidly growing power? Economic warfare if you may?

I'm actually not a big conspiracy theorist. I've dealt with the Gov't so many times, I'm convinced they're incapable of orchestrating anything but waste and fraud.

Anonymous said...

Do you think its possible that "some" of this mess was orchestrated to reign in oil prices and squash Russia/Middle East/Venezuela/China's rapidly growing power?

*

Conspiracy requires 'secrecy', there is NO fucking secrecy, and therefore no conspiracy.

Interesting to note that under BUSH, a family that made its fortune in the two recent dynasty's on oil. That they ran OIL up to $150/barrel, and now back to $20/barrel. So call it 8X, they bought low, and sold high.

I didn't put in 'CHINA' you did. I think the issue is BUSHes own IRAN,IRAQ,... oil folks are now going to see their economy's implode.

CHINA, since I have lived there largely runs on COAL, and the USA has the largest supply on earth. Sure China needs oil, but they don't have an AUTO dependency 'yet', and honestly why should they, unless they pop a non-petro auto out of their ass tomorrow for under $5k.

I think the issue is/was country's that that have been RUNNING on OIL money to run their governments, and CHINA ain't one of them.

Regarding your conspiracy. BUSH invades an oil country, which drives up both demand, and cuts supply. Then right at the time he loses the election, oil prices plummet. If you see an orchestra look for a conductor. Who gives a fuck about secret-conspiracy's?

On the one hand the USA enemy list got rich during the OIL-BOOM, and un-intended consequence, or does BUSH need an enemy more than Bend needs STD's??

Everyone including BUSH, and all his Saudi buddys made a fortune on the OIL-BUBBLE, and that BUBBLE is now fucking popped.

Iran, Russia and Venezuela now are going to become economic basket cases.

Nothing can stop CHINA, like Jim Rogers said the other day, and I hope you all listened. That even if China quits selling shit to the USA, it will not effect most Chinese industry's, the demand for hydro moves on, the demand for cement moves on, this is a country where most don't have electricity, this is a country of over a Billion people with the wants & needs of the USA post civil-war.

China will dominate the world economy for the future, and old white-men playing with their dicks in dark places will not change this fact. The USA itself has already moved key factory's to China to enjoy the growth.

In fifty years the USA's major export will be coal, and that will be the only thing that anyone will want from the USA. Well perhaps add grain. We got Coal, and we grow grain, so long as we don't fuck our rivers.

The USA was a young rich nation, say 100-200 years ago, even during the great depression the USA still had major oil-reserves, and forest reserves, and mineral reserves. Today the USA is a spent post-industrial colony.

Want a future for your children?? Send them to the COAL country of the USA for jobs. I can see them shipping east-coast coal to the Columbia basin to turn coal into liquid fuel per Hitler's technology. The USA has Coal & Water, and little else.

If you list the countrys the USA doesn't control, you end up with Russia, venezuela, china, iran, syria, no-korea, ... ALL ELSE the USA controls. Our 'enemys' are the country's that are NOT our colony's. Today of course CHINA has already taken over most of Africa, because of our absence. Even China needs raw materials and cheap african labor.

The USA is a world super power, that MUST at all cost make sure that OIL & DOPE use their DOLLAR for transaction. I don't think that CHINA is very worried in the long term, as they know the USA is COUNTRY of SAND. So long as the USA is willing to occupy most of the world with its army's why shouldn't CHINA just let the USA bankrupt itself??

I think that so long as people still accept the dollar, the USA will continue its imperialism, if & when the economy of IRAN,Venezuela,&Russia implode the USA will make a move; so what more wars? Like that's how we all stay employed in this country.

An ARMY run's on portable energy, the USA has less than 3% of the worlds 'portable energy'. In order to be the worlds policeman, so we can force the world to only do business with our DOLLAR, we'll continue to bankrupt the oil-states in order to weaken and invade them.

At the highest level the POWER of the world is to print currency, and have people send you goods for worthless currency. In order to secure that POWER you must have the worlds greatest standing army.

IRAQ is a success, because we now control that OIL, soon we'll have new puppet government in PAKISTAN, and ALSO SYRIA, ... and ALSO NO-KOREA. The way we'll 'contain' CHINA is to surround it with our own colony's.

CHINA hardly cares it already has Africa, and most of South-America.

Like MAO said almost 100 years ago, the USA will pay for its own rope to hang itself.

Anonymous said...

With no snow, Mt. Bachelor resort workers don't get paid

by Matthew Preusch, The Oregonian
Thursday December 04, 2008, 9:06 PM

BEND -- Eager for snow to fall so ski season can start? Imagine that your paycheck depended on it.

That's the situation thousands of seasonal workers at ski resorts around Oregon and the West find themselves in as Mother Nature keeps pushing back opening day.

Most workers were hired and trained last month, but they won't draw a wage until there's enough snow to open the slopes. Until then, about 200 seasonal workers are budgeting, waiting and watching the weather at Mt. Bachelor ski area.

"I am memorizing most of the lines to 'Superbad,' so I've got that going for me," said Ted Taylor, who will work full time in the ski school sales office at Mt. Bachelor.

Joking aside, Taylor said it's a hardship not having the job that he expected would start Nov. 21. He would like to have some extra money to do some Christmas shopping for his 5-year old son.

"It's never a good time to not have a job, but around the holidays it makes it even more difficult," said Taylor, 35.

Taylor got his last paycheck from his summer job as a golf pro at a Bend club Nov. 20. Two weeks ago he filed for unemployment to help him bridge the gap between the tourist seasons.

"I didn't set any money aside. I thought I'd go five days without getting paid and then the money would start rolling in," he said.

Most seasonal employees at Mt. Bachelor earn minimum wage, but they also get a free season pass, which costs $999.

Mt. Bachelor and other resorts are ready to open on a moment's notice should a storm dump enough new powder in the mountains.

On Thursday there were blue skies over an 8-inch base at Mt. Bachelor, which needs about 18 inches of snow to open. Snowpack in the Cascades is about 15 percent of average for this time of year.

"They're anxious, we're anxious," said Jon Tullis, spokesman for Timberline resort on Mount Hood. "But we're not worried. Snow is on the way."

Not much right away, though. Two weak systems will pass through the region next week, but neither will carry much moisture or cold air, said Wanda Likens, forecaster with the National Weather Service in Portland.

"There's not a lot of snow potential right now," she said.

Besides hitting resorts' bottom lines and their employees' bank accounts, the delayed ski season has a ripple effect through the economy of mountain towns such as Bend.

Mt. Bachelor resort is central Oregon's fifth-largest private employer. Last year tourism contributed an estimated $470 million in Deschutes County and accounted for a tenth of all jobs in the region, or 5,440 jobs in the county, according to the Central Oregon Visitors Association.

Lodging reservations were down 15percent this Thanksgiving holiday, in large part because Mt. Bachelor wasn't open, said Alana Audette, president and CEO of the visitors association.

"It's pretty obvious it was tied to the lack of snow," she said.

Mt. Bachelor is trying to make the best of a bad weather situation. On Thanksgiving weekend it opened a rail park and tubing hill, and Dec. 13 it will host a "Pray for Snow" party with a barbecue and bonfire.

"Everyone who works in the industry knows that their job starts when the season starts, and this year it was this region's time to get a late start," Mt. Bachelor spokesman Alex Kaufman said.

In the meantime, the ski resort sends regular e-mails to seasonal workers such as J.J. Briggs, a supervisor at the children's ski school whose summer gig at a property management company ended three weeks ago. Now she's dipping into her savings.

"I got two e-mails today saying we're still on for instructor training, but it's going to be an indoor training, nothing on the snow," she said.

Anonymous said...

Last year tourism contributed an estimated $470 million in Deschutes County and accounted for a tenth of all jobs in the region, or 5,440 jobs in the county, according to the Central Oregon Visitors Association.

*

Listen UP BEM, there's that MAGIC number, it used to HOVER right at $498M, for years, ...

Now its $470M what the fuck is going on at COVA???

Quimby said...

From the news reports, it appears that China is trying to quell panic from the masses and a depression of their own with the BK of the USA. Do you think this is simply temporary? I know that Jim Rogers is of this opinion. There is not much that can stop a hungry people such as those in China.

Quimby said...

An interesting nugget worthy of discussion gleaned from the comments on Mish:

Capitalism and the Moral High Ground

Rand's "Objectivism" philosophy is attractive to me but my Christian upbringing bristles at the tossing of compassion and empathy to the winds of self-interested human will. I can see why she was opposed to it: mainly to loosen the grip of "The Church" on the people.

I can't help but wonder if "Objectivism" was the guiding philosophy of the Robber Barons that Teddy Roosevelt took down. Seems a bit cold for my tastes (despite me being Mr. Burns of course).

Anonymous said...

House fire in Pronghorn . . .

Anyone hear anymore about this?

Were the owners here in town or in Illinois when it happened?

Arson?

Accelerant used?

Quimby said...

QUIMBY>> There is not much that can stop a hungry people such as those in China.

To clarify this statement:

This may be just a bump in the road over the next 100 years as China comes of age? Nothing can stop it.

Quimby said...

Also, thanks for the CDS explanation Buster.

tim said...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a37uyBrX6dvY&refer=worldwide

Dec. 5 (Bloomberg) -- One in 10 American homeowners fell behind on mortgage payments or were in foreclosure during the third quarter as the world’s largest economy shed jobs and real estate prices tumbled.

Wow. Can that be right?

Quimby said...

Timmy, I just saw that too. Unfathomable. Interesting to see Drudge start putting more doomsday type articles up. Maybe just a reflection of the media's current "bone to chew".

Quimby said...

Wife found this in the BULL today. Yummy! Will have to try it out.

A Taste of Thailand Drive-Thru


Slow blog day...people must be out ENJOYING the WX! Nice to not have snow and the associated assholes that go with Bachelor being open. (Yes, I know I'M an asshole :) ).

Anonymous said...

Dec. 5 (Bloomberg) -- One in 10 American homeowners fell behind on mortgage payments or were in foreclosure during the third quarter as the world’s largest economy shed jobs and real estate prices tumbled.

Wow. Can that be right?

*

Makes sense. Figure at the MIN we got 10% now out of work, we got a situation where HOME is now over 50% of cost of living versus traditional safety of 20%.

At this burn rate its not surprising that 10% aren't paying MTG, and its clear from the news that OREO will provide endless extensions to foreclosing. I'm sure non-payment will be over 25% when this is over, WHY THE FUCK NOT?

When you have all these fuckers that bought homes for nothing down, and now they're under water, and now they know that if they don't pay the MTG you get the DEAL. Those that pay, and played by old fashion rules get no candy. So I expect to see all the MORON's that bit the first treat, to get in line for the next treat, quit paying all your bills, so fucking what?

OREO is going to stop the foreclosures, nobody is going to make you leave.

Think about that 4.5%, you'll not get it unless, you can prove you didn't pay your MTG, you got to make yourself look real bad to get the candy.

Hey its working for GM, its worked for GS, ... Make your self look real bad.

One in ten, it will be one in two before we get to the bottom of this mess.

Anonymous said...

From the news reports, it appears that China is trying to quell panic from the masses and a depression of their own with the BK of the USA. Do you think this is simply temporary? I know that Jim Rogers is of this opinion. There is not much that can stop a hungry people such as those in China.

*

I'll tell you this quim, compared to the USA's NIGGER-PROBLEM, or MEXICAN problem, CHINA ain't got no fucking PROBLEM's.

Sure there are millions of rural chinese that now must go back to the village, but they're all communal, plenty of food and housing in the village, and that is where all the demand will be.

What will happen when these millions return to the village, is they'll demand what they had in the city.

The rural laborers are no different than our mexicans, just that rural chinese have a home to go to, and mexicans rarely go back to mexico.

Then there is the nigger problem, I hate to use that word, but we got to call it what it is, and this is why its SO fucking important for uncle-sam to have an OREO running this country.

With this depression coming, and three generations of lake-no-negroe's on welfare, its going to be a fucking ethnic cleansing, like watt's riots, or rodney-king riots, its real fucking bad.

I repeat CHINA has no fucking problem, and in the long term its a good thing to have millions of un-educated builders to return to the farm and help modernize the farm.

See that is all China has to do, is pay for a rural-electrification ACT, or such for the villages, ... they now have cheap trained labor sitting idle in the villages.

Back to the USA, you got lazy fucking white walmart shoppers armed to the teeth, you got angry niggers all over the country, you got pissed off mexicans that have no home, ...

The USA is going to fucking explode boyz.

Like I said long ago, if you got kids get them to China for a job, ... if You can keep your passport current, and be ready to stay with somebody in Canada or somewhere, cuz the shit here in the USA is going to hit the fan.

The OREO will not be able to send all the angry dumb-folk quick enough to die in IRAN-WAR, or PAKI-WAR.

Anonymous said...

From the news reports, it appears that China is trying to quell panic from the masses and a depression of their own with the BK of the USA. Do you think this is simply temporary? I know that Jim Rogers is of this opinion

*

The building boom of shanghai, and Beijing is now over.

So fucking what, all the laborers go home.

Like Rogers say's the USA not buying SHIT from CHINA is just a small part of the job's in CHINA, most chinese don't make iPods, most chinese are laborers, its not like here, they don't got D10 Cat's, or Back-Hoes, ... (BIG-YELLOW), China has MEN, and wheel barrows, and shovels, and bamboo.

Chinese have what? 40% saving rate!!!!! USA has a negatives savings rate since 1998.

The CHINESE will invest all their money into modernization, it will be the greatest building boom in the country in history.

The Chinese don't need nothing from any place other than natural-resources, they now know how to making EVERYTHING themselves, including BOEING aircraft.

The USA reverts to a colony that produces COAL, cotton, & wheat.

Rogers is right, cuz he is over there, he see's.

The USA is always fed this shit about being #1, ... the trouble is the USA is more people in prison than any other country in the world. Now they're going to have to 10X that prison population, which means prison camps all over the country.

OR-BOMB-EO's 3M new jobs will be law enforcement and prison guards.

I think that's WHY you see gun sales astronomic right now, because everybody knows whats coming next, and that is door to door seizure of guns. Ergo never been a better time to get a book on GUN-CACHING, and burying 90% your ammo & toys out in the badlands with you new GPS.

Anonymous said...

Then there is the nigger problem, I hate to use that word, but we got to call it what it is, and this is why its SO fucking important for uncle-sam to have an OREO running this country.

*

I was in the LA riot at Watts in the 1960's, and I knew the swat-team commander, and he had a good quote that I always have remembered, and what he used to say, and he be a white guy.

"That the inability of the black-man to become part of the USA system post civil-war, e.g. post emancipation, post slavery would be the cause of the failure and collapse of the USA".

We're still there today, after slavery the blacks moved to the urban areas, and lived like shit, and now we're almost 130 years later, five generations, and all we now have is millions of mad mother fuckers, remember that MOST of the people in US prison are these black-men, most black children don't have a father, cuz dad is in jail.

So anytime somebody talks shit about CHINA, just remember they ain't got no problem like the USA has.

Putting the OREO in charge is an attempt to alleviate the fucking HISTORIC stupidity of the USA mythology.

That said, everything the USA touches turns to SHIT.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, even Hitler thought he was doing the world a favor.

I have a second quote from the smartest scientist I have ever met, back in the 1950's at cal-tech, and it wasn't Feynman, and he used to say ... "The reason we have welfare is to keep the black-man in is own hood, that if we didn't pay them to stay put, they would create pillage all over",... This man wasn't a racist. He was the richest man I had ever met, and a great scientist, and understood everything about how the USA actually operated.

So that's what we have had since WWII, is welfare for the blacks, and filled their city's with drugs, and put the men in prison. Now that the USA is BK, they'll no longer pay the WELFARE, and as soon as the checks quit flowing, then you'll see crime sky-rocket, and national-guard in force in all US city's that are predominately non-white.

So what happens as the USA implodes, welfare ends, and millions of pissed off black-men are freed from prison. All with PHD's in crime,... Sure whitey has his fucking problems, but the black problems facing the USA will be the real reason for its demise.

All the whites with money will leave, much of urban USA will become like Palestine, just walled prisons.

Anonymous said...

Rand's "Objectivism" philosophy is attractive to me

Rand's "philosophy" is a joke among all serious philosophers.

Her reasoning is sound but she starts from faulty premises, laying down certain unproven principles that she asks us to accept as self-evident truths (e.g. a monopoly cannot exist without government support). And no matter how sound your reasoning is, if you start from faulty premises you will reach a wrong conclusion.

The fact that Alan Greenspan was a devoted follower of Rand -- a member of her inner circle, actually -- should have disqualified him from being given any position of adult responsibility. Now he pronounces himself "surprised" that there was so much corruption in the financial sector. Duh! If you give people an opportunity to steal, many of them will steal -- especially if their only motive in life is making a lot of money.

Incidentally Rand herself was a psychiatric basket case.

Anonymous said...

They're gutting city services, while erecting ridiculous roundabout art.

I could be wrong but I think the roundabout art is paid for by a private group called "Art in Public Places." They've been around forever. Their first donation, I believe, was the sculpture of the man and ducks on the bench downtown.

LavaBear said...

>>>I repeat CHINA has no fucking problem

Are you sure you've ever been to China? Seriously? China has been the next greatest thing for what, the last 3000 years? And don't get me wrong, this time I actually think it's coming true. But to say they don't have ethnic problems is simply not understanding all of the different ethnic groups that exist within china. Let alone the vast divide of poverty. SEVERE environmental issues. The list is endless.

Anonymous said...

I think I have defined the difference will enough between China & the USA.

CHINA is homogeneous where-ever you go. If you go to remote villages, all is fairly equal, commie remember?

If you go to city's most have's are fairly equal, and most have-nots are rural laborers that live on the job site.

Best of all China has a zero tolerance for law. I remember once I was in Shanghai, and a cop raped a woman, the cop was executed that day.

You can travel anywhere in China and feel quite safe. They have an interesting way of dealing with criminals. They put them in horrible prisons, and their family must pay restitution.

I love you lava, but you haven't really said anything, but you seem to think that China has rotting sewers of humanity, like most of the USA. No it doesn't I have traveled far & wide in China, and on most faces I have seen happiness.

The USA is miserable corpse in most of its city's. Most US city's you wouldn't even dare travel in broad daylight. I remember last time I was in Philly a cop stopped me and told me to get off the subway NOW!! As if I continued my journey I would die.

Today in Shanghai & Beijing everything is brand-new including the subway systems. If you travel east-coast USA or London, you see HUMAN misery and little else.


No Lava, China has none of the problems that the USA has.

China doesn't have the begging, as it is a family's responsibility to care for their infirm, and NOT general society.

Anonymous said...

Rand's "philosophy" is a joke among all serious philosophers.

*

We don't agree on much HBM, but I'll say that every fucking RAND person I ever met was a nut-case.

Sort of like most libertarians I know.

You know the type, no hygiene, always talking of 'conspiracy'.

What I love about most Rand-ians and libertarians I know, they're always talking about property-rights, but none that I know own any property. ... Just fucking weird.

I read all of Ayn Rands shit as a kid, read it for entertainment, just like I read Orwell. I didn't read it for knowledge.

I think its all L Ron Hubbards scientology, what was sci-fi becomes religion. Ditto for Rand. Except Rand wrote econo-Fiction.

Anonymous said...

China has ethnic problems in places like Tibet, their colonys, just like we have 'problems' in our colony's like Iraq.

But in GREATER-CHINA proper, all is wonderful, just like the USA.

Like in 2002 when we first invaded Iraq they said, 'why are you taking our guns, the usa is about freedom', ahh but only US citizens in the USA have such freedom.

Yes, the colonys of China in Darfur, or Tibet, are not great unless your chinese, but I think the USA leads the world in hypocrisy.

Anonymous said...

We're just comparing things here, obviously I choose to live in Bend, cuz its a great base camp.

China is one of the few places I like to visit abroad, other than Italy.

I speak Italian, and Mandarin ( government chinese ). I also speak fairly good Spanish, but I don't like Mexico, I used to like it back prior to the 1960's.

Remember we ( whitey ) couldn't go to China prior to 1985, that's when I first started going there. Back then the city's were filthy, and crowded. Today they're some of the cleanest and least crowded citys in the world. The new sub-way systems have largely moved transport underground. They have banned the rick-shaw years ago, they banned bikes, today its just taxis, and a few auto's owned by the very rich,

A car costs like $100k, and another $100k for taxes, only the very rich, or FBI types have auto's in China, to have a pistol, you have to be the equivalent of an FBI man, that said USA businessmen can hire them for protection.

But not from crime, from employees in the factory's, when a person is hurt in a chinese factory it is tradition to kill the owner, and if a white-manager happens to be on shift, or your visiting a factory where someone has died, ... Like I said justice is swift.

I have known many businessmen that hire their 'special police' just to protect them from factory workers when visiting.

I find this hilarious, because in the USA the CORP people rule the police, and the worker is the dog, and would never consider killing the bossman.

Like todays story of chinese baby's dying from toxic chemicals, you can be sure there are a lot of CEO's not sleeping well, over their you kill someones child, and your a dead man, if the law doesn't take care, then the people will and swift.

In the USA you can hire lawyers and play endless games, China is so fucking different.

The USA is systemically fucked by the fact that you can get away with murder if your rich.

That said of course, if your part of the commie party, now that is another matter, then your part of the mafia.

But they're smart mobsters, they don't fuck with business.

The military is self financing, mostly high-tech. Mao created a fascinating system.

I highly suggest ALL read the 'little red book' by chairman mao, its got all his philosophy in a tiny book.

Quimby said...

>> Incidentally Rand herself was a psychiatric basket case.

Interesting HBM. I also suspect that she was a cold fish in the sack.

Quimby said...

>> You know the type, no hygiene, always talking of 'conspiracy'.

HEY!!! I took a bath a couple weeks ago. I don't get no respect I tell ya....

Bewert said...

Re: We're just comparing things here, obviously I choose to live in Bend, cuz its a great base camp.

###

So this is a good place to live, coming from a world traveler?

As for banning bikes in Beijing, better have some backup on that claim.

Anonymous said...

As for banning bikes in Beijing, better have some backup on that claim.

*

BP, there used to be a sea of bikes in the major city's you couldn't cross the street, ditto for the rick-shaws, ...

I like it much better now, you can actually cross the street(s) in the city's, in the villages the bike is the primary source of transportation, people with money might have one motor-bike per family, which are like Vespa's.

You must understand that in a city with ten million people all on bikes, its not quite like here. Where bikers are a minority.

I know its strange, but banning is quite common, like children, in the city's you can only have one child, in the country ( villages ) you can have TWO children, ...

Banning might not be correct word, but lets just say you don't see the bikes anymore like you used to ten years ago.

Back in 1985 when they first opened up China, in the city's like Beijing or Shanghai, it could take 1/2 a day by taxi to cross town, that is how slow it was, my last trip about three years ago, it took minutes, everything is empty now.

You can still find the crowds in places like Bangkok or Hong-Kong, if you wish the 'Blade Runner' type experience.

Most places now whether you go to Singapore(Jim Rogers), or Seoul (korea), or most large Chinese city's are cleaner and nicer than most USA city's.

In Seoul like Singapore you don't even see dirty cares, they don't all them.

Anonymous said...

I suspect that China still takes care of it's company problems. As in..."The owner of the factory was found hung from the rafters in the factory, an apparent victim of suicide." Or..."The owner was found with a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head." They just forget to mention it was to the back of the head.

Anonymous said...

n Seoul like Singapore you don't even see dirty cars, they don't allow them.

*

These are USA colony's.

LavaBear said...

>>>CHINA is homogeneous where-ever you go.

Oh man, please don't get me started on a Friday evening before I get the drink on. China is about as homogeneous as the USA is. Meaning it's not. Period.

I guess I heard it best from a Chinese friend of mine. "All you white people look the same to me." So I guess if you travel around all Chinese appear the same to you but jeez. The Commie bastards in charge paper over much of the issues but to think it's all a homogeneous happy place is nuts. I honestly believe the US is better off in those regards and we are kinda fucked up.

LavaBear said...

>>>Back in 1985 when they first opened up China, in the city's like Beijing or Shanghai, it could take 1/2 a day by taxi to cross town, that is how slow it was, my last trip about three years ago, it took minutes, everything is empty now.

Ok, that's it. Shut the fuck up. You obviously haven't been to Beijing, Shanghai anywhere on the coast for decades. You're talking nutty make believe now. Minutes to get around Shanghai...perhaps if you are traveling by the internet but even then the commie bastards limit what you can access. It's a pain in the ass.

Anonymous said...

They just forget to mention it was to the back of the head.

*

More so, like hari-kari in Japan, HONOR is a big thing in Asian culture.

Another common thing you see, is taking everyone out to dinner, its not uncommon for one person to blow a months pay on a dinner for their family, & friends, you see this every where in Japan, Korea, China, ... and Gold is very popular if you have a gold ring or gold necklace, then you are considered very rich.

Another weird like in Japan or Korea, and Chinese do it to, is drinking into oblivion, where 'throwing up' aka vomiting is the badge of a good time, in Seoul if you walk the streets after 10pm, you'll see 'suits' with big grins, and their front covered in their own vomit leaning against walls with big smiles, not unlike Amsterdam where kids on drugs lay in the gutters stoned.

In our culture nobody would think of spending a months pay for one night out, except for a wedding. In Asia they take turns, and if you have money your expected to do it more often.

It's great for the people who own restaurants, they can make a fortune just by catering to a few private party's every night.

'Face' is a BIG issue, if you maim, or do harm, then hell yes, you take yourself out, or you will be taken out, not unlike Africa where your expected to take a walk into the desert, or out of the village, where you'll not survive.

Begging is interesting, you rarely see begging, because it would be un-fathomable to care for someone other than your own family, they come first. Giving to a complete stranger just wouldn't enter a mind.

Villages its really true, the village really does take raise the child, its not un-common to see toddlers still crawling roaming a village, there is no broken glass, or anything on the ground that can do harm, even the chickens eat the fly's as that is often their only food. The yolks of the eggs are often black.


There is no garbage, in African villages or Chinese, nothing goes to waste, everything is collected.

Nobody would dare break a bottle, as it can be used forever. They're starting to get plastic, but even that is picked up in all villages by recyclers.

Even nails would be picked up and reused. People here talking about re-cycling, but in Asia its always been this way, nothing was ever wasted.

There are even many villages where the women go topless in the summer just like Africa, the difference in China is its the older women, and in Africa its the younger women. In Africa a single eligible woman will display her goods. While an older Chinese woman just does as she wishes.

Another interesting aspect of Chinese culture is sex, on the promiscuity scale they're very much like Catholics. For a chinese girl her pussy is the most valuable gift she can give, and MUST save it for her husband, big fucking deal.

Sure there is prostitution, especially in the south, but that is because you get more Buddhism, but in the north, which is mainland china it is Confucian, which is very conservative. Then of course in Japan they have Buddhism.

Even the people are interesting, to most Asians, the Chinese are considered the PIG's of Asian, for they eat everything. As you know the Japan&Korean's are very big in process and sushi, and presentation, ... But the Chinese just want to EAT!!!

Anonymous said...

Shanghai...perhaps if you are traveling by the internet but even then the commie bastards limit what you can access. It's a pain in the ass.

*

That's not true lava, you might want to go there.

In all the Chinese city's an internet cafe on every corner, as common as a 'starbucks' here. Yes they monitor the internet, but no different than 'they' monitor the internet here.

Like todays paper there are 1,000's FBI agents that sit on the computer's all day long in America talking on chat-boards and trying to entrap people with shit about them being 12yr old girls that want to fuck 40 yr old white-men ( see todays Bend media ).

If you do tit for tat on the Internet I think what goes on in the USA is way spookier. People pretty much do what they want, but yes, some sites are blocked, but many sites in the USA are also blocked.

Anonymous said...

The chinese don't have telephone wires never did, they all went straight to cell-phones and pagers, everybody has them in the city's.

Home internet is very uncommon, because of there being no wires, or cable, thus most internet usage is cafe.

Anonymous said...

China is about as homogeneous as the USA is. Meaning it's not. Period.

*

lava if you go to China, most rural villages have never seen a whitey, a nigger, or a mexican, ...

on TV in China if there is a rapist in a sitcom or serial, yes they have TV, buts more like UK BBC its all government paid TV like PBS/OPB, but again if there is a rapist, its always a white-man or jap-man!

White is the symbol of death.

By homogeneous what I'm saying is everybody is the same, they're all chinese.

it's nothing like the melting pot of the USA, in China if a local girl marries a whitey its a major shame in the village, sure in the city's if she goes away, nobody cares, in my travels many times I met women in the city's that refused to travel with me to their home villages, and we were just friends. just to be seen with a 'whitey' would be loss of face.

Very homogeneous.

Lastly, in the villages the women are terrified to be alone with a white man, they have done a very good job, I find it hilarious. They really do think that all white men are rapists just like Japanese.

Anonymous said...

Everybody in the city has cell phones, and they text just like here, the only difference is that the cell phones are like $5, and the service is like $1/mo, way cheaper than here.

Pagers are even more cheap, and more text cell phones very cheap.

The US has some of the highest ripoff rates for wireless in the world.

Anonymous said...

So lets play this game differently, you all tell me WHY Jim Rogers is wrong??

I agree with what he say's there is NO downside on China, they don't need the USA. They'll do just fine.

Anonymous said...

One other thing about China, I find interesting.

On marriage, they think twenty years is right, e.g. a forty year old guy marry's a twenty year old girl.

That way he's got shit, she gets shit, and the sex thing works well, as he get's laid until he's sixty or later, rather than getting cutoff at 45 by a 45 yr old meno-pausal wife.

The trouble of course for the guy 20 to 40 is to get pussy while he's getting himself 'established' you can spend money on HO's, ...

Also on this issue as you know, because of one-child rule in city's in China for past 20+ years, they sent all the girls to orphanages, and abroad, ... nobody kills the girls, but boyz are preferred, so now in all of China something like 10-20% of all men will never get PUSSY or a WIFE. In the south the kidnapping of females is on the rise.

Another interesting thing in the city a new mother, would never take a new born outside of the house the first year for fear of it getting hurt. Very protective.

Most people in the city's live like europeans, in three level flats with grand-pa/ma on top, then parents, then kids, when the older die folks move up.... The point is granny is always there you got builtin baby care!

In the villages many men had gone to the city's for 'work' ( high paying jobs ), and leave their wives behind with granny.
Also because you can have two kids in the village, many people leave the wife behind to have two children, rather than live as a couple in the city with only one child.

LavaBear said...

>>>lava if you go to China

Ok, so the reason I'm calling bullshit on your make believe ramblings is because I spend lots and lots of time in China. Way, way, way more than I care to. Hong Kong, mainland China and Taiwan far too many times. For some reason manufacturing quality works ok as long as the white man is walking the floor of the factory. If not then you tend to get product shipped to you that looks like a 12 year old put it together. And you know that could be true...But anyway, you should stop with your nonsense. It so far fetched it's not close to believable.

But you know all of what you say could be true. I mean I haven't been for 4 months so it's probably all changed. I've got another trip 1st quarter of 2009 and hopefully I'm done with it.

Anonymous said...

I agree with you lava, but I do very little business in China, I go there to travel and live, and study.

After over twenty years of going there, I have found I prefer the villages, which is why I jump back & forth.

I agree, with your manufacturing point, but its the same in the USA, if the boss man aint' there 24/7 cracking the whip, then you get shit.

Quality Control is a big problem for everyone.

I have found that people like you who travel to work, becuase they MUST, see a different world, than people like me who travel to live in homes, and speak the language and learn the culture.

YOU & ME know a completely different CHINA, but I do know the changes that I see in all the big city's such as Tian-Jin, Shang-Hai, Bei-Jing, ... 20+ years ago they were filthy crowded, and now they're like being in Singapore or Seoul ( squeaky clean ).

Smaller industrial towns, are shit-holes, smaller states, are poorer.

Again I prefer remote villages, where I could go for months and never see a cop, you might only have police in the county seat city in most remote county's. They never have federal police. People take care of things, banks are in peoples homes, there is nothing to buy. If you want food you go out to a field and pick what you need.

I don't give a fuck about your production problems, anymore than you care about my love of the Chinese culture.

LavaBear said...

>>>I have found that people like you who travel to work, becuase they MUST, see a different world, than people like me who travel to live in homes, and speak the language and learn the culture

Sorry there pal. My in-laws are Chinese. As in still live in country. I go because I must for work and I go because I must to visit family and friends. I'm comfortable with Chinese culture and life not on the production floor. And no offense but what I read in your postings is someone who has read considerably about China but probably hasn't stepped foot in the country in decades. You should go thought. Much of it is amazing and just as much is fucking foul.

Anonymous said...

Lava,

If you want to talk biz, fine, but lets be HONEST, even the fucking JAP's are doing all their manufacturing now in CHINA.

The fucking iPod is made in China, it can be done, you can get quality.

Like ALL my Chinese friends say "If it were easy to be rich, everyone would be rich".

I'll add to that Chinese proverb, "If it were easy to open a factory in China and produce quality, then everyone would be selling Mercedes"

Look at WALMART, all they sell is 'made in china', and everything that WALMART sells is CRAP, we're the ones that TAUGHT the chinese that crap is acceptable.

Most chinese don't strive for perfection, its not the way, most chinese are lazy, stupid, ... That said they all save, and if a child is smart and works hard, he can go to college, ... Its a very fair system. I despise INDIA where everything is birth-right, where if your not a certain caste then you don't get ahead.

Back to biz, even FUCKING JOHN-DEERE is making tractors now in CHINA.

It's not easy. Quality is NOT easy.

I know from my own days of running company's that instilling quality into the minds of my employees was the hardest most impossible task. Achieved only be checking & testing everything they did, sadly, I don't think this is a Chinese problem.

But yes in General most stuff in china is done in batches, and once a batch is made, that factory may never see you again.

That said, at least in China people often live at the factory, eat at the factory, and an employer has WAY more power than the USA.

In ancient CHINA they way was to cut off someones head every once in while when quality became problem, that would keep things good for awhile.

It's all habits, and the demand for quality will be adapted by this generation, and eventually passed on.

On the other hand, try to take some LA-PINE meth addicts, and let them run your factory lava, like to see you do that.

Anonymous said...

I read in your postings is someone who has read considerably about China but probably hasn't stepped foot in the country in decades.

*

Nope, I have been there for 3 years, but before that I went every year since 1985-ish, and I only quit going, cuz post 911, I hate to fly anymore, too much NAZI SHIT.

On my trips I never went less than a month, usually 2-6 months, and always traveled, and stayed with chinese friends I had met over the years.

I learned to speak mandarin there, I studied the religions, during stays I met many business people in China, both white & chinese and visted many factorys.

But like I said, people like you who travel for biz, or go see one relative for a few days, like you have seen China, yes tell me about it lava, you already said, you went to some factorys, and you visit one relative, and you probably fly in & out in a week, or less.

Go try and live in one single village for three months, and live the way they do with less than one litre of water a day, for drinking and bathing.

The CHINA I know is not the China you know.

Where do your relatives live?? In China?

Lastly, I do NOT consider HONG-KONG as china, I consider it as BRITAIN.

LavaBear said...

Have you ever had your mother in law take you across the country to meet all of the 3rd, 4th, 5th aunts, uncles and who knows what cousins? And let me tell you about Chinese Mother in-laws...anyway I've spent my fair share of time. I understand the culture and lived much of it first hand.

I called you on you saying you can just zip around Shanghai these days. It's utter nonsense. If you want me to believe your village tales then stick to that and I'm ok.

Lastly I will say that China is not even close to homogeneous. They have so many different ethnicities it's hard to keep track. Shit they have more languages than I can count.

I've also said I agree that they are the next great thing. But I also am well aware of the severe internal issues they have going on. So while I believe it might happen I also don't think it's a foregone conclusion.

Anonymous said...

Shit they have more languages than I can count.

*

That's another issue, just about every town has a different language.

But its homogeneous, all the people are 100% asian, well except places like Shanghai, or Tsing-Tou that have had their blood polluted by ferners.

That's the good thing about 'mandarin' its the official language of the government of beijing, so everybody knows mandarin, but yes, every town has its own dialect and language but so what they all known mandarin.


So how about lava, how about telling us where you travel in CHINA? Where is your wife from?

You seem to be incapable of any fucking specific.

To me zipping around Shang-Hai, is how it now with the new sub-way, and the external freeway that wraps around town, years ago, it took 1/2 a day to cross town. Things are downright empty now, compared to even ten years ago.

Anonymous said...

I also am well aware of the severe internal issues they have going on.

*

So go to it lava, what the fuck are the 'internal issues' that you see in the CHINA you know?

I have dumped above 10-20 posts about the CHINA I know, and all I get from you is some non-sense about dozens of relatives your afraid of, that your forced to travel to china on biz, and forced to visit 'inlaws'.

I have been going to CHINA for over twenty years on my own nickel and I love the place, you make it sound like your going for a fucking root canal.

So tell us something about CHINA lava, you haven't told us a fucking thing.

I know your full of shit cuz truth be told your wife, if you do have a chinese wife is probably a hong-kongy, and that ain't china, that's a fucking British COLONIC.

Anonymous said...

So where did you meet your chinese wife lava?

Is she ABC? or CBC?

Is she your age, or did you get young-in?

I have already told you I would never marry or fuck a chinese woman, they all think their pussy is special, and there ain't no special pussy, anywhere, well except our BP.

I have had too many friends fuck Chinese women, and then try get rid of them oh my god.

Then the worst chinese women are the hong-kongy's the worst money grubbers in the world. Well Taiwan is close behind, another US chinese colony.

Anonymous said...

Still NOBODY has told me why Jim Rogers is wrong about China.

I completely agree with him. The demise of the USA will not hurt them one iota, the people who work in infrastructure will hardly miss the USA's walmart production.

Only those who work in Walmart factorys, ... that said walmart is still doing fine, so those workers will be ok, ...

Rogers is right, very few chinese will actually be effected.

The real issue, that I see, is the return of MILLIONS to the rural farm areas, but like I have written above, this is a good thing, they all have homes to return to, and they have tasted city life, and they'll create new demands in their village for external.

The USA has a lot of a bigger crisis to manage, e.g. 30M niggers that are mad as hell, and 50M mexicans that want california & texas to be part of mexico.

Anonymous said...

When lava talks about CHINA he keeps referring to hong-kong, but like I said that ain't china, and yes its a fucking heterogeneous melting pot, shit like its bitch brother london, so fucking what it ain't china.

I don't think lava has ever been to CHINA.

He can't even say where his wife is from, or where her parents live.

*

HONG-KONG is heterogeneous, CHINA MAINLAND is homogeneous.

CHINESE love the USA in general cuz we dropped the atomic bomb on JAPAN, that is the one thing that MOST people in the USA don't understand, that the CHINESE love the USA, cuz they know that had the USA not bomb japan, that japan would have made all the chinese into whores.

lava hates china, cuz he's never been there.

LavaBear said...

>>>The USA has a lot of a bigger crisis to manage, e.g. 30M niggers that are mad as hell, and 50M mexicans that want california & texas to be part of mexico.

My point is and has been is that China has these same issues to deal with internally. I love Jim Roger's but he is a salesman. He's good at glossing over the middle parts. The china that I have seen has serious quality of life issues to deal with. And I'm not talking about shreading singletrack quality of life I'm talking about people fucking dieing because of the air they breath.

Look china has BILLIONS of really fucking poor people. You suggest they are just going to go back to the happy life on the farm and things will be better. Maybe. The people I talk to are seriously worried that they've had a taste and now it's been taken away. People are serious afraid of fucking upheaval. The communists government likes to pretend they have everything under control just like ours does. I have my doubts.

LavaBear said...

>>>lava hates china, cuz he's never been there.

You funny. I love the place as much as I hate the place. Ying and Yang and all that.

LavaBear said...

>>>CHINESE love the USA in general cuz we dropped the atomic bomb on JAPAN


There. You found one thing we can agree on. Just mention Japan around any real Chinese and you can just see the look in there beady little eyes. They HATE the motherfuckers.

LavaBear said...

>>>When lava talks about CHINA he keeps referring to hong-kong

I've been to Hong Kong once in my life for 3 days. Nice enough city and I agree it's not anything like the mainland.

Quimby said...

Do they have those wicked chineese finger handcuff thingys woven out of grass or bamboo? Damn, those things get me EVERY TIME!!!!

LavaBear said...

>>>On the other hand, try to take some LA-PINE meth addicts, and let them run your factory lava, like to see you do that.

What is interesting is once oil went to $140 a barrel it became freakin' obvious the manufacture in China and ship it home was not working out. For us at least. Wal-Mart is probably fine. The problem we've found is China is cheaper but in general it's a huge pain in the ass. Quality control, language barriers, distance and such. We've always been toying with a Maquiladora deal somewhere along the border but the $140 oil finally pushed it over the edge. You can setup in Mexicali and have managers live in El Centro or Yuma. It's frickin easy to get to. Spanglish is not a problem. We can have a manager walk the floor daily. The shipping costs across the pond are out. I think this whole deal has been a huge wake up call for many manufactures. And yes, oil is frickin $40 a barrel but I think this is the wave of the future. I don't trust we won't have inflation sooner or later and oil is going to skyrocket in flight.

The big thing is it's not me paying Mexicans illegally in La Pine but it's me paying Hondurans illegally in Mexico. What a small world.

Anonymous said...

What about paying 'meth whitey' to manufacturer in LA-PINE lava? You evade my question?

Oil is now back down to $40, on its way to $20. So all of a sudden shipping is going to be almost free.

I used to tell my employees, and this is my own quote "Everybody wants to drive a Mercedes, but nobody wants to work in their factory". The trouble is achieving 'quality' is boring and repetitive, like I have said all along here its NOT natural, humans by nature like cousin monkey want to hang in trees, eat fruit, and fucking play with their dicks all day. You put any human in a routine job and tell him to do it exactly the same ( quality ), and they'll go fucking nuts. Thus it's hard to be a manager and keep your monkeys happy, any place on earth.

Mexico has its own set of problems, namely you have put your finger, that in order to get people to work in Mexico you must hire Hondurans, what happens when you run out of Hondurans?? Then your stuck with Mexicans. It's like here in USA prior to 1992 I got hire Green Card Chinese all day with PHD's that would work their ass off ( quality ), whitey would not work that hard, and INDIANS, I hate fucking INDIANS laziest bastards on earth.


After 1992 there became parity, and I told my Chinese PHD's to get back to Beijing, and make as much as here, and be close to their family, most did so, and by Y2K there was NO reason anymore to be here, the smart ones I know that went back when I told them did well. The ones still here today can hardly find work, just like whitey.

Nothing has ever been 'easy'. Yes, you can make tires, and just about any thing that convict labor can make in Mexico, but its hard to get a dozen PHD's in Mexico to do something interesting. While in China this is trivial.

Anonymous said...

OK, lava let's go back to square-one.

The ONLY reason I brought up the CHINA debate, is because I wanted a KUNT ( BB2 loyalist ) to tell me that Jim Rogers is wrong.

It sounds like we're going to have to wait and see.

My bet is China will do just fine, China needs the USA like a fish needs a bicycle.

Anonymous said...

I have not seen those funny paper-bamboo finger hand-cuffs since I was a child. That be more than 1/2 a century ago.

Did you ever get the large size, and put it over your dick with your boyfriend?? Sheet me & BP used to link ourselves for days.

Anonymous said...

I hate Hong-Kong, for the same reason I hate NY city, just a BIG crowded dot-eat-dog shit-hole.

The primary difference in CHINA mainland to Hong-Kong, is in CHINA, most people have some idle time.

In HONG-KONG, you really got to work 12 hrs/day 7 days a week just to live, thus most people have not time for anything other than work, shit, eat, sleep.

In Chinese villages, its similar to Italy where people can work 4-6 hrs day and have a good life, of course the difference is $$$$$$ people want MONEY. In villages there is NO money, and in fact there is NOTHING to buy, nothing to BUY.

In the past 10+ years the BIG city's in CHINA ( mainland ) are becoming more like Hong-Kong, people want more, so they work more, and then prices rise which means they have to work more.

I like rural China, like rural Italy, or hill rural Africa for that matter, where people have time to stroll, and play games all day.

Anonymous said...

GOD SPOKE YESTERDAY OVER AT DUNC's HOUSE ...

Bend Economy Man said...

There was a phrase bandied about a lot on the national Housing Bubble Blog that inspired me to create my blog: "revert to the mean."

I understood this to mean that once the excess credit leverage was eventually gone from the economy, you'd see the pre-boom economic situation establish itself (in housing, for example, there would be a correlation between median income and median house prices).

Bend is/was a highly leveraged place. You saw the terms "upscale" and "affluent" used all the time to describe newcomers to Bend but media outlets like The Bulletin and KTVZ could never seem to give an adequate explanation about why the median income in Bend did not reflect the new "affluence."

The Occam's Razor explanation of how a large number of "affluent" people could move to Bend and yet have a relatively small effect on median income numbers would be that the money was borrowed. Borrowed money doesn't show up as income. But The Bulletin ran stories attempting to reconcile the inconsistencies, where local economic boosters said that Bendites were, in effect, big capitalists rather than big earners: they had a lot more stock, real estate investments and other ASSETS, i.e., WEALTH, but not necessarily assets that spun off a lot of income, I guess.

Well let's assume for the moment that The Bulletin was right - that we had a lot of newcomers who were asset-rich but cash-poor. Aside from people who've lost their jobs and have NO assets, those are exactly the people who have taken the biggest hit. There's been huge losses of value in just about every asset class you can think of. You hear "I'm heavily invested in stocks and real estate" nowadays and think "ouch!" rather than "wow!"

So to me, "reverting to the mean" in Bend means that people are needing to live on the money they can earn working at a job. There's not a lot of money to be made wheeling and dealing right now.

The people who are sitting the prettiest right now, other than the TRULY rich who can lose large portions of their wealth and still be wealthy, are those with steady, high-income jobs. And Bend is notoriously short on steady, high-income jobs (a problem which should be priority #1 here to fix).

In short, all rambling aside, whether Bend's "affluent" class was (1) living on borrowed money or (2) asset-wealthy but not high-earning, it ain't good for those who cater to the upscale Bend customer in today's economy because either way those folks are hurting.

Bend has a small high-earning professional class (like doctors and lawyers) that is doing just fine. Other than that it's hard to imagine that there are a lot of people around here who would describe themselves as "affluent" today.

Anonymous said...

Is BEM saying that Bend isn't Aspen??

Quimby said...

>> The ONLY reason I brought up the CHINA debate, is because I wanted a KUNT ( BB2 loyalist ) to tell me that Jim Rogers is wrong.

I really don't know enough about China to comment intelligently....not that that's ever stopped me before! I just don't know enough about the situation.

I know what Rogers says but I still have this gut feeling/intuition (arrogance?) that w/o the USA dripping trillions of dollars into their economic IV, things will slow there significantly. They may have enough of our technology now to bootstrap themselves for growth on their own into the future....and this is probably your exact point.

Anonymous said...

Did you actually listen to the Rogers video??

OK, having lived there, I know the situation, and as you know, Rogers too traveled the whole country on a motorcycle, and even wrote a book, and thus the man knows what he is talking about.

Picture this QUIM, most of CHINA is still like the USA prior to WWI ( 1918 ), most homes don't have running water or electricity. People still cook with coal on stone stoves, they don't have central heat, most people have NO heat, they bundle up in winter.

My point is quim, that you have a BILLION people, who have to advance, and MAO-chairman called it the greap-leap-forward.

All these people know how to make fridges, and stoves, the biggest thing had been electricity, but with the 3-gorges dam, now they'll have lots of power in Central China, and once it distributed, and once every village gets electricity ( like our Rural electrification act from 1910 ), and running water, ... then homes can have all the things that US homes take for granted. At 10X of the USA in 1910 this will be the BIGGEST economic boom in world history.

NOT a fucking thing to do with the USA, and these people don't need a fucking thing that the USA has.

Even the EUROPEANS now have most their stuff made in CHINA, so even if the USA dies, the chinese still have export markets, even Russians have shit made in China.

I remember years ago that Chinese men used to travel up north to Russian frontier towns to buy cheap russian pussy. The russians were so desperate for food money.

The NUMBER of people in CHINA whose livelihood is dependent upon USA consumption is quite small, that said the largest retailer in the world WALMART is doing just fine, and its SHIT is all made in CHINA. Thus the effect on CHINA will be trivial.

Quimby said...

Chinese property hunters to raid US

Bend's wet dream may come true....foreign money coming to a town near you!

Buster, status report on the flatbackers and gamblin' establishments please.

Anonymous said...

Just remember this folks.

It is the USA that is fucked.

Not China.

Chinese are forward thinking.

You can hardly say that about the people who control the US government.

Quimby said...

Yeah, I watched the whole video (4 segments).

Labor and natural resources...it all comes down to those two things.

Any country wants to live like the USA population, w/o some sort of innate wealth, ain't gonna happen. They got the labor part down (cheap that is), what about the expensive labor (white collar) and the natural resources (forestry, ag, energy) that are necessary to produce wealth (w/o just running the printing presses)?

Again, you're arguing with an admitted ignoramus on this issue so if you're bored.....at least its an interesting discussion!

IHateToBurstYourBubble said...

Where's BEM's new blog? I'll put it up on the links... can't find it in BendBlogs.

Anonymous said...

Buster, status report on the flatbackers and gamblin' establishments please.

*

I check almost daily for erotic services on craigs-list, and BEND has some of of the lowest rates on the west coast, but my god, the pic's scaring fucking meth HO's, how come BEND REHO's don't post their pics?

Anonymous said...

On the bizarre, I just read todays saturday WSJ, and in the money section that the head of UBS bank of Switzerland a Mr. Widmer had committed suicide.

Remember that UBS be the bank of KURATEK, and the original bank of Juniper Ridge, and you got their bankers offing themselves, me thinks they spent a little too much money 'investing' in places like Bend.

Anonymous said...

Where's BEM's new blog? I'll put it up on the links... can't find it in BendBlogs.


*

Homer the above BEM post came from DUNC's site. You know Ned Flanders.

Anonymous said...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/582d470c-c307-11dd-a5ae-000077b07658.html

On the notion of 'chinese' investing in USA.

Let's be HONEST their sitting on a trillion worthless dollars, so convert them to 'real-estate', I mean REAL.

That sad remember in the 1980's when JAPAN had all the money, and they bought Hawaii, and they paid top dollar at the TOP for NYC....

They got hosed, if the CHINESE buy now they'll get hosed.

The 'FT' is the UK's wall-st urinal, my guess is that FT is motivating the KUNTS in UK-HONG-KONG to look at buying US assets, ... but its a long ways off from actually happening.

The REIT's yesterday took the hardest hit in a while, and if our REIT's are bleeding, chinese reit's operating here will do no better.

We all know its going to be 2+ years before even the resets are over, and my gawd the fucking commercial, we got over 6X commercial that we don't need.

How about this, how about disassembly of USA commercial and shipping them buildings to CHINA??

Then there is the problem with martial-law coming to the USA, and the angry niggers, and ... Asians ain't real fond of the black-ones, I don't think you'll see a lot of Asians coming to Bend to dry-ski, and fuck our Meth-Ho's.

Quimby said...

>> I just read todays saturday WSJ

Buster, where do you get your WSJ so early? I have to wait until the US Mail is delivered. Online is always an option for the early bird.

Anonymous said...

By 6X what I'm referring to is the avg retail-sq-ft per person in the USA is 18-sq-ft, in Western Europe its 3 sq-ft/per-person, that's a 6X that isn't needed.

We got way too much fucking retail space, ... nobody intelligent is going to by that shit.

Siberian crap shacks with deer-mice ( hanta-virus ), come on, ...

Then another thing we haven't talked about is TEXAS & OKLAHOMA, with oil heading to $20/barrel, its over almost all US oil manufacturing needs almost $50/barrel to break even, thus TX&OK are now BK. Corn alcohol? They need almost $80/barrel to look good, ... so there goes the midwest.

Asians like the pacific rim, I would look at Vancouver, CAN, San-Fran, maybe PDX, any place that's got ports. To ship that USA coal to CHINA in the next 50+ years, that's where I would invest if I were a CHINESE investor.

Anonymous said...

I wrote my comments before reading this article, and I stand by what I said, but after reading I might add this is far worse than I suggested as this SOUFOU isn't even chinese, its an australian outfit, which of course means Taiwan, cuz there are only taiwanese in australia. Like the article quotes, only a MORON would try to catch a falling knife in the USA right now, and there are morons. ... Hell YES, germany today is in a depression, and their RE is dropping like a rock, the USA has just begun, and the like the article say's, ... so fucking what you own USA RE, you going to live there for a meeting?? Nobody in CHINA wants to live in the USA, they know its a shit-hole to do business, and little else...

***

Chinese property hunters to raid US

By Geoff Dyer in Beijing

Published: December 5 2008 20:10 | Last updated: December 5 2008 20:10

Chinese bargain hunters are preparing to descend on American cities such as Los Angeles and San Francisco, where homeowners have suffered some of the steepest price falls in the US.

SouFun, the biggest real estate website in China, is organising a trip next month to look at properties in California and possibly Nevada. Liu Jian, the company’s chief operating officer, said about 300 people had expressed interest in the idea in the three days since it was advertised, though the company would take only a small group on the first trip.

“Given the problems in the Chinese market now, many people have been asking us about taking a look at overseas markets, especially the US,” he said.

The trip would focus on California, particularly San Francisco and Los Angeles, where big Chinese populations might make his clients more comfortable, but might also include Nevada.

Restrictions on taking money out of China would be an obstacle, he added, but some potential investors had an overseas connection such as a foreign passport that would make it easier.

Property professionals say there is considerable interest among wealthy Chinese, who often hold a high proportion of assets in property, in investing abroad.

“The US market absolutely terrifies me,” said one Shanghai-based real estate executive. “However, there are plenty of people here who think this a great time for bottom-fishing.”

There is opposition in China to SouFun’s plan. “Unless these people need a house in the US to live in, this is senseless,” said Yi Xianrong, a real estate expert at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences. “A few years ago there was a lot of talk about investing in German real estate but most of the people who did so lost a lot of money.”

SouFun, owned by Australia’s Telstra, provides information on property markets in more than 100 cities and has more than 40m registered users.

Anonymous said...

So you got a australian/taiwanese ( US colony ) making stupid statements on a chinese blog about travelling to USA.

IS this really fucking news??

I don't think so.

FYI-
Australia is a UK colony, Taiwan is a USA colony.

The FT is UK's WS-Urinal.

Anonymous said...

Any country wants to live like the USA population, w/o some sort of innate wealth, ain't gonna happen. They got the labor part down (cheap that is), what about the expensive labor (white collar) and the natural resources (forestry, ag, energy) that are necessary to produce wealth (w/o just running the printing presses)?

*

The average Chinese saves 40% or more, the avg USA has negative savings.

It costs nothing for adv degree in China, you got unlimited white collar. Doc's & PHD's only got $40/mo ten years ago, teachers got paid more. Today a comp-sci in Beijing can pull $50k/yr or more. No fucking shortage of 'white collar' in CHINA. Even in rural villages all children go to school 7 days a week 12 hr's day, with only a chalk-board, and NO BOOKS, the kids take turns copying the books by hand, and their parents MUST pay for pencil & paper. The smart kids are sent to college, paid by government. The smartest kids used to be sent by Gov to USA for adv-degree's, but now they just to it in CHINA.

Forestry? You buy cheap wood from Russia aka Siberia.

The biggest problem in CHINA again was un-availability of electricity, now with the new 3-gorge dam, biggest in world, there will be plenty of electricity to modernize.

There is no shortage of labor blue or white. Full employment for all, as they still use bamboo to erect sky-scrapers, and shovels to DIG, they don't have heavy-equipment as we know, ... Full Employment!

Anonymous said...

Quim,

You ought go to China some 200BC they built the 'great wall of china', its still the biggest man made structure on the planet.

There are pyramids, and under ground caves all over, that rival shit in Egypt.

When Marco Polo first visited China in 1324, he NOTED that there were MORE bridges in the Sou-Jou ( a little burb of shang-hai ), than all of EUROPE.

Think about that little fucking TOWNS had more bridges that ALL of fucking EUROPE.

The great wall. 4,000 fucking miles of a structure built over two thousand years ago, ... that is the only man-made structure visible from outer space. Google wiki and look at the pic's, in its day it was a FREEWAY system that crossed the whole country, and kept out the barbarians ( whitey ).


Nobody talked about blue/white collar, they just got the job done.

It's the same now, when the Chinese put their minds to something they get shit done.

Anonymous said...

There is no shortage of labor blue or white. Full employment for all, as they still use bamboo to erect sky-scrapers, and shovels to DIG, they don't have heavy-equipment as we know, ... Full Employment!

*

That's another aspect of CHINA, I'm sure we all saw it coming, I did as a technologist, soon nobody in the USA will have a job.

On the other hand in CHINA, given that all construction is done by hand, everybody has a job.

Then in the USA, when you got 60M unemployed ( 20% of 300M ), and 30M pissed off hungry niggers, it ain't going to be pretty.

There is NOT a fucking thing they can do, we have automated ourselves into a fucking non-sustainable box.

1% of the USA will live good, another 49% will have government jobs, to imprison the other 50%, that's how I see the USA going.

Our 'productivity' has farmed all our jobs over-seas, we're now a service industry, but we farmed the service to India, cuz they speak english.

Today the USA is a fucking basket case, and all the city's are going to BURN.

How can it be any other way?

Anonymous said...

There is no shortage of labor blue or white. Full employment for all, as they still use bamboo to erect sky-scrapers, and shovels to DIG, they don't have heavy-equipment as we know, ... Full Employment!

*

See the chinese system really is sustainable, and self regenerating, they need nothing that the USA has.

On the other hand the USA needs bulldozers, and imported equipment to run, highly specialized people to keep everything working.

While China is today like the USA was in 1915, everybody can do everything, because all you need is a pick and a shovel.

The USA has too major problems, it refused to integrate and treat fair the niggers post slavery, and it didn't have the foresight to keep everyone employed. Today the DOLLAR is worthless, and the only thing that keeps the USA in biz, is that were the worlds policeman.

Anonymous said...

Quim,

On the forestry issue, china really doesn't use timber except for furniture making.

Almost all buildings are made from aggregate. Rebar is optional, which is why the recent earthquake was so terrible.

Bamboo is used for all scaffolding. Which is plentiful like blackberry is in the PNW.

Most villages use no more trees than a few furniture makers in each village need to make furniture.

So 'forestry' really isn't a big issue, I'm sure +4,000 years ago most trees were cut, during the 1800's all trees were cut in INDIA by the british to feed and fuel the rail-road.

Environmental conservation was learned in CHINA 1,000's of years ago, its something that everybody does, nothing is wasted.

The USA is the MOST wasteful nation on earth, another reason that it will not sustain as we know it.

In China in the villages NO garbage is generated, I know that it is not conceivable but it it true. Every scrap of shit dumped by anyone in front of their house is picked up by someone else the same day, and used for something.

People feed their scrap to pigs, chickens eat flys.

What to learn how to live?? Go live in China for a few months or years.

Anonymous said...

Read BEM's post above, about how BEND is a rich mans town on BORROWED money.

It's over.

Our citizens have no idea how to survive, a day without shopping at Walmart and they'll turn to crime and cannibalism.

Anonymous said...

1% of the USA will live good, another 49% will have government jobs, to imprison the other 50%, that's how I see the USA going.

*

Given that all US KUNTS here are part of this 1%, what do we care right? We're in Bend-ORYGUN.

Anonymous said...

What about BEM's demand today? That we create in BEND ton's of DOC&LAWYER jobs, ...

Yeh, right I love you BEM, but doc's and lawyers only eat when they suck blood from a host, and now that BEND will have NO money, these parasites will move on.

It's a tough problem, professional services, needs rich people, and you know it, you said, yet you think that doc's & lawyer's can keep making big bucks?? In Bend?? I don't think so.

tim said...

>>Read BEM's post above,

What post?

IHateToBurstYourBubble said...

inspired me to create my blog: "revert to the mean."

I wondering where the URL is to this blog.

Bewert said...

Re:...think that doc's & lawyer's can keep making big bucks?? In Bend?? I don't think so.

###

Lawyers, no. Docs, at least most of them, sure. We are the regional medical care center, and that should be built on. It will continue to create good paying jobs if we keep building it up.

Cosmetic puff surgeons may have a hard time of it, though.

tim said...

BEM's post:

http://pegasus-dunc.blogspot.com/2008/12/ob-original-bubbleblogger.html

"Revert to the mean" is not the name of a blog. It's the phrase that inspired his original Bend Bubble blog.

tim said...

>>Buster, where do you get your WSJ so early? I have to wait until the US Mail is delivered. Online is always an option for the early bird.

Mine's delivered at 4am or so. I got the FT in the mail when I was getting it.

Why is yours coming in the mail? You live somewhere remote?

Anonymous said...

what a bunch of weak people? you are so occupied with china that you really miss the whole agenda. My grandfather died in ww2 for your rights by the way. We are entering one of the worst econimics since 1863 thats right not the 30's but the 1800's. It's gonna get downright awful and this is the cleanseing that we the people have to endure. fact number one. Are you gonna stand still and watch your children starve?And your wonderful government has stated that we are in an recession? but are we really in an depression with the stats? 500000 unemployed just this week.What are the percentages 25% 1930 unemployment Don't trust your government but your own common sense. Thats right be an independent thinker.

Quimby said...

>> Why is yours coming in the mail? You live somewhere remote?


Maaaaaayyyyyyybbbeeeeee.......

Anonymous said...

what a bunch of weak people?

[ we are bend ]

you are so occupied with china that you really miss the whole agenda.

[ agenda? are you a conspiracist? survivors study that what works, losers embrace failure, the usa is a failed state ]

My grandfather died in ww2 for your rights by the way.

[ you grandaddy, may of died a lot of folks die, most of us eventually die, but nobody killed japs or germans for our 'rights', that has got to be the biggest fucking myth of them all. ]

Anonymous said...

We are entering one of the worst econimics since 1863 thats right not the 30's but the 1800's.

*

Just hold on, we're still in peaches and cream phase of the bubble.

I agree, that when this thing hits bottom, it will look very much like post civil-war reconstruction, and who is going to pay?

Anonymous said...

Ok,

Back to lawyers and doc's, ...

So we agree lawyers are fucked, if there is nobody to fuck.

But Doc's? That's all insurance, now at $1k/person/month, nobody can pay.

Your going to see cash for services, and like a great man said years ago, we're going to return to death by old-age, where folks get hurt they simply get sick and die, no more expensive medical, ...

St-Charles? Are you out of your mind? That place is going to get so fucking sued, the death of Friedman is just the tip of the iceberg.

Nope, sorry BEM, there are no safe professional jobs in Bend.

Lastly, hell yes un-needed surgery has what has been keeping st-charles in the black for years, ... its game-over.

Sick in BEND?? Get over in the valley and quick if you want to live.

Anonymous said...

Mine's delivered at 4am or so. I got the FT in the mail when I was getting it.


*

Yep, six days a week on me porch before 4am, all kinds of kindling. FT&WSJ are my favorite, for only knowing who is fucking who in the $$$ world.

Sounds like quim, lives out in one of Homers Sisters hobby-farming areas. Just kiddin, I didn't respond, because its just how you setup your account, some like it delivered, some like it mailed, ... If you want it delivered call them.

Anonymous said...

The spectacular view and yummy open-hearth pizzas are two good reasons to enjoy lunch at Scapolo's in the Pine Marten Lodge.
(AP)

***

Pleaaeeeeezze, even dogs will not eat the crap they serve at MT-B, the crap makes pizza-hut look like pizzacato. Has this bitch ever been there and had there $10 cardboard burger??

Anonymous said...

More than half of the people here have a dog, and you're likely to see Subarus with roof racks crowding nearly every parking lot in town.
*

Please mention that its a $500 ticket for removing FIDO from your home.

Like the movie a few years ago 'pets & meat' we know where all them 40k dogs are going.

Subby's with roof racks, 40k dogs, ... crowded parking lots, ... this bitch has been to Bend, she knows Walmart & Costco.

LavaBear said...

How 'visionary' raised - and lost - a fortune

It's kind of long and you have to get down to the last paragraph or so to see our very own Bend, OR investor connection.

tim said...

As far as I know, the FT is not delivered anywhere in Bend. Anyone know any different.

I did not renew it because I had found that by the time I got mine, the news seemed stale and there were only a couple things in the whole paper that I cared about and had not already seen online.

Anonymous said...

The same guys that dump my FT dump my WSJ.

I guess you got to be on Awbrey, or BT.

Anonymous said...

Cocaine, Pussy, Football, & Bend. Oh, and toss in some easy-money. Result? Who would have guessed? Cigars, don't forget the Cigars.

Remember yesterday top dog @UBS mr. widmer did a Bend Suicide.

...

In May 2007, at a time when the company already was missing payroll, former New England Patriots quarterback Drew Bledsoe and six other NFL players invested in Pay By Touch based on a memo distributed by UBS Securities. The memo didn't disclose the company's financial problems or Rogers' alleged behavioral issues, they said in a lawsuit filed recently in San Francisco.

Then, in September 2007, executive vice president Siegal sued the company for securities fraud, contending that Pay By Touch had concealed Rogers' alleged cocaine abuse and his history of lawsuits and arrests from shareholders. Attached to the complaint were copies of two restraining orders obtained in Minnesota by Rogers' former girlfriends.

Anonymous said...

SF-CHRON ... Bledsoe ...

Where venture cash for Pay By Touch came from

Sunday, December 7, 2008


In Minnesota, John Rogers had a history of business failure, lawsuits and arrests. But in San Francisco, he managed to raise $340 million for his high-tech startup, Pay By Touch, from some of the city's savviest investors. Here, from court records, are some investors and creditors:

Retired Justice William Newsom (left), father of S.F. May...John Burton, former state senator.Drew Bledsoe, former NFL quarterback.


The Gettys: Billionaire Gordon Getty invested as much as $50 million through trusts, a source said. Other investors included son Billy Getty, who had a contact with a Pay By Touch executive; retired appeals court Justice William Newsom, father of Mayor Gavin Newsom and Getty trust administrator, who served on Pay By Touch's board; and Thomas E. Woodhouse, a Getty trust administrator and president of Falstaff Management Group, the mayor's business corporation.

Ron Burkle: The Southern California supermarket magnate and Democratic Party mega-donor invested in 2005.

John Burton: The lawyer and retired San Francisco lawmaker invested in 2006. Stockbroker James Halligan, Burton's longtime friend, also invested, as did San Francisco investment banker Gary Shemano.

NFL players: Investors solicited by UBS Securities included retired quarterbacks Drew Bledsoe (New England, Buffalo, Dallas), Rick Mirer (San Francisco, Oakland, three other teams), Kelly Holcomb (Cleveland and four other teams), Craig Nall (Green Bay) and Alex Van Pelt (Buffalo); Mark Campbell, New Orleans tight end; and retired center Jon Dorenbos (Buffalo). Former 49ers lineman Harris Barton's venture capital firm, Eleven Rings LLC, is also a creditor.

Hedge funds: The OZ Master Fund of New York's Och-Ziff Capital Management ($62 million); Connecticut-based Plainfield Asset Management ($67.5 million); Denarius Touch, a unit of Thomas Steyer's San Francisco-based Farallon Capital Management, ($45.1 million).

Las Vegas interests: Investors included Mandalay Bay casino's co-founder Clyde Turner; Bellaggio's chief financial officer, Robert Baldwin; Sam Boyd, grandson and namesake of the founder of Boyd Gaming, owners of the Fremont Hotel and 15 other casinos in six states; and former Elvis Presley impersonator Tony Ciaglia.

Major creditors: Whorl LLC, a biometrics firm acquired by Pay By Touch, claims it is owed $67 million. Accenture LLP business consultants, where Pay By Touch was incubated, claims $7 million; the Saatchi & Saatchi ad agency, whose CEO, Kevin Roberts, was on Pay By Touch's board, claims $2.93 million.

Other creditors: PKV Racing, now known as KV Racing, which operated an IndyCar racer Pay By Touch sponsored; heirs to the S&H Green Stamps fortune; 1960s pop trumpeter Herb Alpert; Chicago Cubs pitcher Ted Lilly; San Francisco sports-car dealership Cars Dawydiak; the Milken Institute, founded by 1980s junk-bond financier Michael Milken; a golf tournament to benefit a hospital for crippled children in Brownsville, Texas; the IRS and tax collectors in California and 29 other states

Anonymous said...

Best deals in the USA @ MT-B, bring your own snow...

Pacific Northwest ski deals

12:00 AM CST on Sunday, December 7, 2008

Tom Parsons www.bestfares.com

If you're looking for a bargain ski vacation, consider the Pacific Northwest. Ski deals are available for Oregon, Washington, Idaho and British Columbia.

Many ski resorts in these areas are reasonably close to cities, including Portland, Seattle and Vancouver, giving you the option of combining a city visit with your ski vacation.

Enjoy three nights for the price of two at MountBachelor in central Oregon. Packages are available from $255 per person, double occupancy, at the Seventh Mountain Resort in Bend. Included are two nights of lodging with the third night free, three days of skiing or snowboarding and one free ice-skating session for two guests. The offer is valid through March 31; blackout dates apply. The resort offers free shuttles to Mount Bachelor daily. Contact: 1-800-452-6810; www.seventh mountain.com.

The Best Western Hood River Inn in Hood River, Ore., offers Stay and Ski packages for $169 for two people. Guests receive lift tickets for Mount Hood Meadows and free breakfast. The deal is valid through April 15. Contact: 1-800-828-7873, www.hoodriver inn.com.

Book a three-night package at the Sun Valley Resort in Sun Valley, Idaho, and receive a $100 Sun Valley gift card when you pay with an American Express card. The offer is valid for travel Jan. 4 through April 15. Contact: 1-800-786-8259 (cite promo code AXP09); www.sunval ley.com.

Travelers can hit the slopes in Whistler, British Columbia, at discounted rates and experience the area that will host the alpine ski events for the 2010 Winter Olympics.

Specials include the Ski Free, Stay Free package, which offers your fifth night free, your fourth day of skiing free, free breakfast and early access to the mountains, starting at $93.

The Whistler Ski Escape offers three nights of lodging and a two-day lift ticket, starting at $96. Packages must be booked by Jan. 15 for travel Jan. 3 through April 26 for the first deal and travel Jan. 3 through March 27 for the second. Contact: 1-888-403-4727; www.whistler blackcomb.com/deals_pack ages/index.htm.

A number of Leavenworth, Wash., hotels are offering packages that include skiing at Stevens Pass or Mission Ridge. Along with skiing, travelers can enjoy a taste of Germany in this Bavarian-themed village.

Among nightly rates are $179 at the Linderhof Inn, $185 at the Anna Hotel Pension and $199 at the Bavarian Lodge. Contact: www.des tinationcascades.com (click on Leavenworth). The site also lists packages for nearby ski areas.

Buy gas in the Northwest and get a voucher for ski discounts at participating resorts in Idaho, Oregon and Washington. From Jan. 2 through April 13, buy 10 gallons of gas at a participating Shell station to receive a voucher redeemable for a buy-one-get-one lift ticket, ski discounts or a Ski-Free and Stay package. See www .skifreedeals.com/home.

Tom Parsons is publisher of BestFares.com.

Anonymous said...

13 reason why NO-FOLLOW SUCKS, and the KUNTS that enable it like HOMER&NED.


13 Reasons Why NoFollow Tags Suck
Dec 8th, 2008 by Loren Baker,

The NoFollow link attribute (rel=”nofollow”) was originally created to block search engines from following links in blog comments, due to the amount of blog comment spamming.

The theory is that if spammers are spamming in blog comments to get better SEO and anchored links for their sites, NoFollow would render such spam useless. Problem is, spammers still spam.

Now, NoFollow has been adopted beyond blog comments. Wikipedia is now using NoFollow for external links and Google recommends that paid links use a NoFollow attribute.

Here are 13 reasons why NoFollow is a failure.

1. NoFollow = NoWorky. Using NoFollow in blog comments, the original intent of the tag, does nothing to discourage comment spammers. Using other anti-spamming tools such as question, math and plugins such as Akismet and SpamKarma for Wordpress is much more effective.

2. If a blogger moderates comments, there is no need for a NoFollow attribute. “Everyone who passes a human inspection should get the link love.”

3. Since the use of NoFollow in comments on Wordpress blogs is default, many bloggers do not even realize they are using NoFollow.

4. NoFollow=NoValue. Why use NoFollow on sites, text ads, and blogs if there is no value in terms of search engine indexing? What if they made the Yahoo! directory nofollow? Would anyone continue to purchase listings? Obviously the value of that directory would be zero of nofollow tags were applied to the listings.

5. Linking to someone with a NoFollow attribute is a sign of not trusting them. It’s like reaching to shake someone’s hand, but stopping to put on a pair of latex gloves.

6. No Follow sucks because the search engines (particularly Google) can’t make up their mind about when and how it should be used, thus causing confusion among inexperienced webmasters who do STUPID things like No Follow ALL outgoing links from their website to “protect the site from page rank leakage” and other silly ideas.

7. No-follow is a poor search engine’s solution to conceal its own failure to rank websites appropriately. What’s next, No-linking?

Search engines should be able to develop a method of identifying and devaluing links to spam sites which were placed in blog comments. Why should everyone who posts in blog comments suffer from the actions of a greedy few spammers.

8. Commenting on a blog post is the same as adding more relevant to that blog post. A thought provoking one sentence post can lead to pages of comments. If someone takes the time to help build your site’s content via posting comments, it is professional courtesy to give them some link love.

9. Putting NoFollow on Wikipedia is like putting Grey Poupon on a Spam sandwich.(Or like putting perfume on a pig.)

Taking Wikipedia to task over nofollow is fun but ultimately you need to take them to task for why they implemented nofollow in the first place - that is, to prevent spam. Which in turn means that the way Wikipedia was setup was flawed because it opened itself up to easy spamming.

Therefore, instead of just letting Wikipedia take the easy way out (because ultimately it’s an important resource for many people and replacing it would be tough), they should look at ways into changing their systems so they are not as open to spamming any more.

10. Text link advertisements which use a NoFollow make no sense. If you want to spread your Google juice, why use a link-condom?

11. Even Wordpress founder Matt Mullenweg says NoFollow was a failure; “In theory this should work perfectly, but in practice although all major blogging tools did this two years ago and comment and trackback spam is still 100 times worse now. In hindsight, I don’t think nofollow had much of an effect, though I’m still glad we tried it.”

12. Search Engines follow NoFollow. Yahoo has been known to count NoFollow links as backlinks in SiteExplorer. So, if you’re goal in comment spamming to to build backlinks, which builds your site’s value in terms of selling advertising (TLA, ReviewMe, SEOmoz’s PageStrength and other metrics programs use Yahoo Backlinks as valued criteria), NoFollow is useless.

13. NoFollow Sucks. Check It!

What are your thoughts on NoFollow? Do you support the use of NoFollow in Wikipedia or as a way to identify paid links?

Have more reasons why NoFollow is a failure? Please feel free to share them below.

[Thanks to Carsten, Greg, Ahmed, Dave, Everett, Gemme, and John for contributing. You’ve all been NoFollow’d!]

tim said...

Really, you get FT on time? I should try again. Maybe mine was mailed because I got it through Amazon.com.

Bewert said...

Re: Pay By Touch

###

The comments are hilarious. I would love to see the UBS investment memo post-"can't make payroll". Invest in this company, it's blown through $340M and can't make payroll.

Bewert said...

Good post-mortem here: http://bhc3.wordpress.com/2008/03/19/farewell-pay-by-touch-farewell/

BTW, the no-follow article above is excellent. Dumb fix for a real problem results in retardation.

Bewert said...

Re:
More so, like hari-kari in Japan, HONOR is a big thing in Asian culture.

###

In the Muslim culture as well. Good or bad?

Anonymous said...

I can just say one THING BEND-SUICIDE,

The TOP-DOG of UBS in Switzerland KILLED himself this past friday, his name was Mr. Widmer.

Remember back where Mr. Kuratek came from at Bayview ( which he owned ), was a RE front for UBS.

The $20M that originally was promised to city of Bend by Kuratek to Juniper-Ridge was to come from UBS, but on Sep 2006, dey pulled da ol plug, the rest was history, within a few months, Kuratek was looking at collect $2.5M.

Quimby said...

>> More than half of the people here have a dog, and you're likely to see Subarus with roof racks crowding nearly every parking lot in town.

Sounds like she's been given her target market. Intermountain West Studs....please come lose your life savings in Bend!

Bewert said...

The TOP-DOG of UBS in Switzerland KILLED himself this past friday, his name was Mr. Widmer.

###

“Alex Widmer was the very epitome of a Swiss private banker,” Julius Baer said in a statement.

“It is a great shame,” added a Zurich-based trader. “It is very sad. He embodied Julius Baer. He was the most important person in private banking.”
...
Julius Baer has rejected speculation that it would shed GAM as it restructured its business to focus on wealth management, which has benefited from problems at rival Swiss bank UBS, which has seen strong outflows of money to clients scared by its heavy writedowns.


Yeah, it would be a good story if your facts were straight.

Bewert said...

BJB was involved in a high-profile tax evasion case earlier this year. The whistleblower set up his own site here: http://www.swisswhistleblower.com/

Wikileaks also has a bunch of stuff on BJB.

My guess is it's a Russian hit, as they went heavily into Russian private wealth in the last year or so.

Anonymous said...

BP, finally somebody in GUVVY is saying it like it is, who would have guessed??

Obama Warns Economy Will Worsen Before It Recovers (Update2)
Bloomberg - 1 hour ago
By Edwin Chen and Julianna Goldman Dec. 7 (Bloomberg) -- President-elect Barack Obama said the US recession will worsen before a recovery takes hold and that he will offer an economic stimulus plan “equal to the task” without worrying about a ...

Anonymous said...

Baer's Widmer Passes Away
Vidya Ram , 12.06.08, 06:00 AM EST
Popular private bank head dies at 52, possibly a suicide.

Swiss wealth manager Julius Baer said that Alex Widmer, the popular 52-year-old chief executive of its private banking unit, died unexpectedly on Wednesday amid an expansion campaign that took advantage of the weakness of larger rivals.

Market reaction signaled just how important Widmer was to the recent growth of Baer's business. Shares of Julius Baer (other-otc: JBHGY - news - people ) fell 9.5% in Zurich on Friday, well below the sector average, after the bank released the news of his sudden death.


"We have lost a dear friend, a good colleague and a charismatic leader," said Raymond Baer, chairman of the bank.

The bank refused to comment on the cause of Widmer's passing -- leaving open the possibility of suicide -- but it did tell Forbes.com there was "no link between his death and the business of the bank." Swiss police also refused to specify the cause of death.

Widmer was well-regarded. One analyst described him as "charming" and a "workaholic," while another described him as the "architect" of the bank's strategy.

He joined Julius Baer from Credit Suisse (nyse: CS - news - people ) three years ago and brought with him experience in the private banking sector and a number successful client managers, especially in Asia, who had helped the bank grow its business. Widmer has spoken this year of hiring staff away from Credit Suisse and UBS, who are suffering from the global market turmoil.

Baer has also benefited from clients leaving UBS' wealth and asset management businesses, following its multibillion-dollar losses. (See "Swiss Banks Gain From UBS Pain.")

Anonymous said...

Julius Baer's Widmer Dies; De Gier To Head Private Bank
Friday December 5th, 2008 / 15h11
(Adds police comment.)
By Anita Greil Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES ZURICH -(Dow Jones)- Swiss bank Julius Baer Group (BAER.VX) said Friday that Alex Widmer, who led the bank's flagship private bank operations, died unexpectedly overnight Wednesday, aged 52.
A spokesman declined to comment on the circumstances of Widmer's death, which a person familiar with the circumstances told Dow Jones Newswires was suicide.
"We decided not to comment, because this is a personal matter for the family," the spokesman said.
A spokesman for the responsible police department also declined to comment, citing data protection law, when asked whether an investigation into the death had been launched.
Widmer, whose wife had died of cancer three years ago, was the father of three children.
Julius Baer shares were lower after the news on concern that Widmer's death was related to the bank's business, but the spokesman said the matter had nothing to do with the business.
Widmer joined Julius Baer in 2005 from Credit Suisse (CS), where he had worked for nearly 20 years, and he initially led the bank's private banking business. A year ago, his role was expanded and he became CEO of Bank Julius Baer, which includes the private bank and investment products businesses. The Julius Baer group also has a sizable asset management unit.
"For colleagues and clients alike, as well as for the financial industry, Alex Widmer was the very epitome of a Swiss private banker," the bank said in a statement.
Widmer was the driving force behind the expansion of Julius Baer's private banking franchise. Baer is Switzerland's biggest manager of assets for rich clients behind global peers UBS AG (UBS) and Credit Suisse (CS).
This year, Julius Baer's private bank continued to attract fresh assets from clients, in part because it gained market share as clients were moving assets away from banks that also have investment banking operations, and therefore suffered more heavily from the downturn.
Profit at Julius Baer climbed steadily since Widmer joined, and the operations he oversaw reported only a small dip in pretax profit when the first half closed June 30. The bank overall had a difficult year, however, because its fund-of-funds manger GAM suffered from asset outflows, in line with the rest industry.
Hans de Gier will now lead the private bank. De Gier had stepped down as Group CEO of Julius Baer in September 2008 to focus on his function as chairman of the bank's fund-of-funds unit GAM.
At 1355 GMT, the stock was down CHF2.80, or 7.5%, at CHF34.24, in a lower Swiss market. The Stoxx Europe 600 banks index was down 2.9%.
"Julius Baer is losing the architect of its new business strategy," an analyst with Zuercher Kantonalbank said in a note to investors.

Anonymous said...

Killed by CIGARS! Who would have guessed?

Banker Behind Gains at Julius Baer Is Dead

By CARRICK MOLLENKAMP in London, DAVID CRAWFORD in Berlin and KATHARINA BART in Zurich

Alex W. Widmer, a prominent Swiss private banker, died Wednesday of what police are treating as a possible suicide, according to people familiar with the situation.
[Alex W Widmer photo] Associated Press

Alex Widmer of Julius Baer, addressing the media in 2006.

Overseeing the private bank at Julius Baer Holding AG, Mr. Widmer turned the Zurich firm into a leading bank for wealthy clients by poaching bankers from larger Swiss rivals UBS AG and Credit Suisse Group. He also expanded in Europe and the Middle East. The 52-year-old Mr. Widmer was a widowed father of three.

Julius Baer officials said Friday that Mr. Widmer's death wasn't linked to problems at the bank. Julius Baer shares in Zurich fell 9.5%, or 3.50 Swiss francs, to 33.50 francs ($28.04) Friday.

Mr. Widmer's death comes at a volatile time in Swiss banking. UBS is under investigation in the U.S. for allegedly helping clients evade taxes and has booked about $46 billion in write-downs. Baer's private bank, though, has been doing well in recent months, with net gains in money flowing in, in part picking up funds leaving UBS. But its asset-management arm has suffered due to its exposure to hedge funds.

In a brief statement Friday, Julius Baer said Mr. Widmer, whom it described as "the very epitome of a Swiss private banker," had "died unexpectedly." It said Hans de Gier, who stepped down as chief of Julius Baer Group in September, would assume Mr. Widmer's responsibilities.

The bank disclosed the death of Mr. Widmer, chief executive of Bank Julius Baer, Friday morning, about 24 hours after the banker's death. The bank needed time to notify Mr. Widmer's children, at least one of whom wasn't in Zurich, and hadn't reached them all until Thursday night, a bank spokesman said.

While the death of a key manager at a public company needs to be reported as soon as possible, the death must be first verified, and that can take time, said Werner Vogt, a spokesman for the Swiss stock exchange, speaking generally. He declined to comment on Baer.

Police in the district where Mr. Widmer lived are investigating the death as they do any case that could be a suicide, a prosecution spokesman said.

Susanne Mühlemann , a friend, said she was surprised by the possible suicide. She declined to discuss if his death was work-related, saying, "This isn't the time for that discussion."

Bank Julius Baer, which includes the private-banking business, is one of two main units at the company, which also runs an asset-management arm.

Jon Peace, banking analyst at Nomura International PLC in London, said he expects Baer "to try and poach a big name from outside the bank" to replace Mr. Widmer.

A bank spokesman said Mr. de Gier's appointment isn't an interim move but also not long term. Mr. de Gier is 64 years old. Mr. de Gier wasn't available to comment Friday.

Mr. Widmer had a penchant for keeping meticulous records of clients and associates and for smoking cigars. After a long career at Credit Suisse from 1986 to 2005, he moved to Julius Baer in what was viewed as a coup for the smaller bank. He wasted little time in hiring bankers from his former employer, as well as UBS.

In a Nov. 11 update, Julius Baer said operating income had dropped about 10% in the first 10 months of the year amid hedge-fund withdrawals. But net inflows of money into Mr. Widmer's private-banking arm were ahead of last year.

Bewert said...

Speaking of illegals, I just noticed that a drunk driving chase turned into a 230+ comment thread on the Vail Daily, mostly about illegals.

See Drunk driver leads high-speed chase in Avon, police say

Rather amazing.

Bewert said...

Watching 60 Minutes on CBS East right now--first story is basically a story on how much more oil Saudi Arabia has. Rather interesting...

Bewert said...

Love the ballon captions at the top of this photo leading an Autobloggreen.com post on the Detroit bailout :)

Anonymous said...

BP TT got a whole box of those finger prisons today, these are perfect guys with small dicks.

What do you say we all get together tonight and tie one on??

Quimby said...

>> What do you say we all get together tonight and tie one on??

Must have happened and no-one can quite make it to the computer to post.

I told you, those things get me every time!

Quimby said...

Come on Buster, give us a report from last night!

Bewert said...

GREED at it's finest:

Lawyer Dreier Charged by U.S. With $100 Million Fraud

Dec. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Marc Dreier, managing partner and namesake of the 250-lawyer New York firm Dreier LLP, was charged by federal prosecutors with cheating hedge funds out of more than $100 million.

Dreier, who has represented publishing executive Judith Regan and real estate broker Kenneth Laub, is set to appear today in Manhattan federal court to face securities and wire fraud charges. He faces as much as 10 years in prison if convicted of the most serious counts. Dreier’s lawyer, Gerald Shargel, didn’t return a call seeking comment.

The charges against Dreier, 58, a graduate of both Harvard and Yale Universities, came on the same day he was sued by Wachovia Corp. for defaulting on $12.6 million in loans. The U.S. alleged he lied to three unnamed hedge funds when he claimed to represent a New York real estate developer purportedly seeking to sell notes to investors. Dreier told the funds they may buy the notes at a deep discount from both the developer and the original note purchasers, prosecutors alleged in a criminal complaint.

One fund allegedly wired about $100 million to Dreier’s account in October after receiving phony financial documents written by the attorney, prosecutors said. Another fund allegedly wired about $13.5 million.

“The developer did not issue any of the notes,” according to the criminal complaint. Dreier “is not and has never been responsible for managing or selling notes on the behalf of the developer.”

SEC Lawsuit

The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission filed a parallel civil lawsuit against Dreier today, claiming he raised at least $113 million by marketing bogus promissory notes to hedge funds and other private investment funds. Though money was returned to at least one buyer who discovered the alleged fraud and demanded a refund, about $100 million hasn’t been accounted for, according to the SEC.

Dreier allegedly recruited accomplices to pose as representatives of legitimate businesses and created dummy e-mail addresses to help convince buyers the notes were real, the SEC said.


The federal charges and SEC lawsuit come only a few days after Dreier, a Harvard Law School graduate, was arrested in Canada on a charge of criminal impersonation....


More at Bloomie.

Anonymous said...

Come on Buster, give us a report from last night!

*

We got a whole box, and we're bringing them to the Deschutes tonight to hand out.

If you want one by there.

Report? Well today BP got an enema ( planned ).

Buster, is working on his 20th DUI.

It's just Bend.

Oh, in case nobody tells you, wear a condom under the 'finger prison', cuz they got splinters. BP could hardly walk today to the proctologist for his enema.

Bewert said...

I think it may better be described as a slow, painful waddle. Kind of like my buddy Max looked after getting his nuts tied off, and his balls swelled up about three times in size.

Anonymous said...

It's 'official', we're now in a Depression at over 12% real un-employment.

***

NFP: Even Worse Than Reported
Email this post Print this post
By Barry Ritholtz - December 8th, 2008, 6:34AM

Over the past few years, we have railed at the prettyfied numbers that come out of BLS regarding NFP job creation and the unemployment rate. From the Birth Death Adjustment to the understated unemployment rate, the official data (and corresponding headlines) painted a very misleading picture of what was going on. No conspiracy, mind you — just a creeping bias that has slowly distorted the data.

Hence, the past few years of aberrational, credit-driven economic growth was hidden from the public view. Many (tho not all) of Wall Street Economists were too hapless or cowardly to point this out. And some even cheerleaded the absurdity of the “Goldilocks” BLS data. Some simply declared the US a Nation of Whiners.

With the economy now in a full blown recession, and the Housing and Credit crisis getting worse, it hardly semed necessary to pile on BLS. Until Friday’s report. As bad as it was, looking beneath the headline data hows that it was worse — much worse — than reported. Consider the following:

Unemployment: U6 (Table A-12, Alternative measures of labor underutilization), the broadest measure of unemployment, jumped to 12.5%. This is the highest reading since the U6 measure was created 1994. Note that our A Modest Proposal regarding reporting both U3 and U6 was followed by the NYTimes last week.

Labor Pool: 637,000 left the labor force last month, typically because they could not find work. The shrinking labor pool has made the unemployment rate appear better than it really is. 7.5-8% is a slam dunk next quarter, and if things get even a little worse, we could see even 9.5-10% unemployment rate before the recession ends (Remember, Unemployment is a lagging indicator). The NYT reported:

“The number of people out of the labor force — meaning that they were neither working nor looking for work and that the government did not consider them unemployed — jumped by 637,000 last month, the Labor Department said. The number of part-time workers who said they wanted full-time work — all counted as fully employed — rose by an additional 621,000.

Already, the share of men older than 20 with jobs was at its lowest point last month since 1983, and very close to the low point of the last 60 years. The share of women with jobs is lower than it was eight years ago, which never happened in previous decades.”

Companies Adding Jobs: For this data, turn to diffusion index (Table B-7, Diffusion indexes of employment change). These figures are the percent of industries with employment increasing; It crashed from 37.8 to 27.6.(50% percent is the midpoint, indicating an even balance between hiring and firing).

Seasonal adjustments: To answer the SA question, we turn to John Williams of Shadow Government Statistics. John notes that the headline 533,000 jobs loss — net of concurrent seasonal adjustment bias — would have shown a monthly jobs loss of 873,000. Over the course of the past year, SGS suggests that job loss number was actually understated by 955,000.

Underemployment: Lastly, Bill King points us to the this article in the Washington Post, Rising Underemployment Contributes to Pain of Jobs Slump:

“The government does not count some types of underemployed workers — those who are overqualified for their current work, for instance. But it does count people who are working part time when they would prefer full time. That count has jumped by 2.8 million in the past 12 months, to 7.3 million.

There are people in a worse position. In all, 10.3 million were reported unemployed in November, sending the nation’s unemployment rate to 6.7 percent, the highest level in 15 years.”

Underemployment measures provide a more accurate measure of what the economy is like for labor.
>

Anonymous said...

I think it may better be described as a slow, painful waddle. Kind of like my buddy Max looked after getting his nuts tied off, and his balls swelled up about three times in size. - BP

*

I know BP, and what he is saying is that he'll be at the Deschutes tonight, and willing to play even rougher than last night.

Lava has rented us a room at 7pm, at Bledsoes Cigar club, so we got 5-6pm little beer @ Deschutes, 6-7pm chasers courtesy of Lava @ D&D, and then upstairs to Chinese Imprisonment.

Tonight is cigar night, no humidors required.

Bewert said...

This is rich, from Barney's article at ktvz.com on the recent HIS Global Insight study that put Bend at the top of being overvalued:

The rest of the top 5 on the overvalued list: Atlantic City, N.J.; St. George, Utah; Honolulu, Hawaii; and Longview, Wash. (Atlantic City and St. George are the only places that join Bend in the "extremely overvalued" category at present.)

But with Honolulu's median price at $650,800 and Longview's at $205,900, a Bend real estate expert says it's hard to see how the Global Insight report relates to what one's seeing in Bend now.

"I guess I have a little problem with this whole overvalued interpretation," said Cal Gabert, residential manager for Bratton Appraisal Services in Bend. "I've heard we're overvalued before, but we're still somewhat of a resort community. We have a lot to offer that isn't available in other places."

"Bend still is right now a good value,"
Gabert said Friday. "It's statistical analysis. I guess, if you're trying to get to the average of something, I'm not sure it tells you a whole lot on a national basis."

Still, Gabert said, "If you move to Bend, you'd better have employment figured out. A lot of retired people move here," and to Gabert's way of thinking, Bend homes are becoming more of a value all the time.


Yep, we can offer homeless on every busy corner, and methhead blowjobs in the Walmart parking lot.

Christmas tree raising tonight. Have fun at Drew's without me. But one of these Mondays I'll get down there. Maybe for Green Bay and Chicago ;)

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